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New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

nytimes.com

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Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#801

Post by dymk »

fwungy wrote: post #150
galleywest200 wrote: post #46

Only 24% of my state (Washington) has gas stoves. We have already begun the process to ban Natural Gas into new buildings. Nothing major is happening and the sky is not falling. If you are curious about your state's ratio of gas to electric stoves, you can check here [PDF warning]: https://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/data/2020/state/...

Washington is unique in its hydropower positioning. It's easy to electrify in Washington because it makes sense to do so. Hydropower is cheap and clean. Unfortunately it's not a replicable model for the rest of the country.

WA is drastically reducing the amount of hydropower it produces due to the negative environmental impact it has on local waterways

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#802

Post by ihateyouall123 »

kleiba wrote: post #681
apnew wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also _rent_. I hate food cooked on electric stoves, so when I was looking to rent, anything that dint have gas stove was automatic non-starter for me. This whole argument that “you oppose a forced choice so you must hate poor people” is just a straw-man. Just because you prefer things one way doesn’t mean govt has a business telling me how I should cook my food.

This is such baloney - there's so many way more relevant factors to the taste of food then which power source was used to provide heat. I bet if you did a blind tasting you'd not be able to tell the difference.

[flagged]

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#803

Post by iamdamian »

boplicity wrote: post #590
iamdamian wrote: post #365

This regulation feels quite frustrating to me, and several comments in this thread illustrate why. This change is being promoted as a critical step in the fight against climate change. (See most news articles over the past two years covering this.) But when you dig into the details, it seems like the regulation may not have much effect on climate change at all. When you point this out to advocates, you'll get an enti…

> This change is being promoted as a critical step in the fight against climate change. 27 years from now, when we're supposedly going to be "net zero", do we really want to be supporting a bunch of natural gas infrastructure? Or should we start making that expensive infrastructure not necessary? 1. Most homes built now will be around in 27 years, and still in good shape. 2. Building and maintaining natural gas infra…

> Gas heating is easily replaced by heat pumps, even in cold climates

This claim has been contested a few times in this thread below.

> Building and maintaining natural gas infrastructure to homes is expensive

Can you quantify this? How does this compare with the cost of replacing it all and powering it all with zero emissions power sources?

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#804

Post by tohnjitor »

carabiner wrote: post #797
tohnjitor wrote: post #790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the last straw in a long list of offensive and disrespectful actions the state government has taken.

Americans are fucking nuts. Induction works 10x better than gas.

Induction won't fill my cast iron radiator system with steam.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#805

Post by dymk »

bretticus wrote: post #712
iamflimflam1 wrote: post #680

I used to be very much on the side of gas stoves are always better than electric. Then I had a decent inductor stove and it changed my mind for good. Much of my opinion on electric stoves was based on “folklore” passed down from my parents and on using ancient resistive stoves. Get an induction hob - you will not look back.

It’s only ancient if you’re well off. The majority of renters won’t have induction stovetops

Well off? You can get a decent induction cooktop for less than $100 on Amazon

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#806

Post by osigurdson »

kleiba wrote: post #681
apnew wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also _rent_. I hate food cooked on electric stoves, so when I was looking to rent, anything that dint have gas stove was automatic non-starter for me. This whole argument that “you oppose a forced choice so you must hate poor people” is just a straw-man. Just because you prefer things one way doesn’t mean govt has a business telling me how I should cook my food.

This is such baloney - there's so many way more relevant factors to the taste of food then which power source was used to provide heat. I bet if you did a blind tasting you'd not be able to tell the difference.

How did we ever get to the point where we think it is fine to tell someone else how something tastes?

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#807

Post by ihateyouall123 »

ramraj07 wrote: post #722
foepys wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to invalidate your point (because I have never made rotis) but this suspiciously sounds like you need better cookware.

There’s definitely a level of confidently-incorrect cringe here. Please tell me how I should do this https://youtu.be/lsI08y6jwaQ with better cookware.

This whole thread is a bunch of losers who sit in front of computers trying to understand cooking through the science they learned in front of their computer.

Maybe try to cook first?

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#808

Post by iamdamian »

simplotek wrote: post #695
iamdamian wrote: post #365

This regulation feels quite frustrating to me, and several comments in this thread illustrate why. This change is being promoted as a critical step in the fight against climate change. (See most news articles over the past two years covering this.) But when you dig into the details, it seems like the regulation may not have much effect on climate change at all. When you point this out to advocates, you'll get an enti…

> If you buy a home and want it to have a gas stove, why is it the state government's place to say that you can't do so, for your own health? This is the wrong question to be made. You should ask what should be the safety standards you need to adhere to ensure health risks are mitigated. The reason why this sort of thing must at all times be regulated, without any exception, is that the personal interest of a corpora…

> that doesn't grant you the right to subject everyone around you to them

It seems to me you are switching to a third argument, which is societal (rather than personal) health risks, along the lines of second-hand smoke. I haven't seen this argument made in a serious journal, but maybe I've missed it. Can you point me to a rigorous analysis of this?

I will also point out that, as I mentioned above, it seems fine to me to require vented fume hoods in new buildings with gas stove lines. I'm hoping that addresses at least some of your argument.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#809

Post by justeleblanc »

baggy_trough wrote: post #612
justeleblanc wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can get rid of a whole percent in emissions by giving up nothing important, and you think it's not a regulation that the government should pass?! What should the threshold for a regulation to pass, in your opinion? Should it cut single-handedly emissions by 2% on its own? 5%? 10%? 50%?

You think it’s nothing important. Others disagree, and get angry when they are forced to obey your preferences.

And I get angry when selfish people refuse to do anything to lower their emissions and impact me and my family.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#810

Post by osigurdson »

ahoy wrote: post #445
iamdamian wrote: post #365

This regulation feels quite frustrating to me, and several comments in this thread illustrate why. This change is being promoted as a critical step in the fight against climate change. (See most news articles over the past two years covering this.) But when you dig into the details, it seems like the regulation may not have much effect on climate change at all. When you point this out to advocates, you'll get an enti…

I _rent_ a home, as do a full half of new york state residents. I'd love an electric stove. Every rental I've ever lived in has a gas stove and no fume hood. The full half of new yorkers who rent - almost 20 million people - mostly get whatever theirlandlord picked. So when I read posts like this, decrying government overreach, I wonder if you've ever been poor? Have you ever lived here? Do you know what youre talkin…

Having a hood fan should be part of the building code for natural gas stoves. Gas stoves themselves should not be banned.
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