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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#511

Post by fuzzy2 »

mnd999 wrote: post #442
hurtuvac78 wrote: post #250

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

Users don’t want crappy PWAs, they want something that follows the platform UI conventions. It’s good that Apple care enough about about UX to actually enforce this.

Just some anecdata: I use the Outlook PWA (on an iPhone!) to access my work mail and calendar. It does not have notifications, which I really liked for calendar events (because I’m forgetful), so that’s a bit sad. However, there is a decisive pro: It cannot enforce restrictive device policies. What a great feature!

UX isn’t half bad either. It actually feels pretty native most of the time.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#512

Post by xattt »

hurtuvac78 wrote: post #250

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

> Thank you, EU!!

I think this plan will move forward because of consumer protections afforded in the EU (ie including sideloaded apps) not available elsewhere.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#513

Post by tommica »

flohofwoe wrote: post #432
stavros wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the GP's point, they rent you games but the language they use is "buy", and they shouldn't. They should say "rent" instead.

It's not quite as simple, the main reason for the 'rent' argument is DRM (e.g. most Steam games will stop working if the Steam client can't phone home for a while), but some games on Steam are actually DRM free - it's a very small minority though.

Gog is a good example of how it should be done - you buy the game, and it can be played without needing their servers to be accessible

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#514

Post by Matl »

PlutoIsAPlanet wrote: post #405
hurtuvac78 wrote: post #250

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

> And you cannot use a third party browser, since they forbid that (all are Safari based) I think this has turned out to be the current barrier in preventing Google from completing taking over the web standards space.

Is Apple a significant player in proposing new standards and working with say Mozilla to get consensus as a genuine alternative to Google or are they simply not implementing much? The latter is certainly my impression.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#515

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

Moldoteck wrote: post #120
kaba0 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s good about physical SIMs? I do like apple for daring to improve the status quo there, so I want my European Edition with only e-simsz

Some people value privacy and can buy phisical sims from stores without id's and it's perfectly legal

Not in most of the world, no. Most place will have to scan your ID when selling you a SIM card.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#516

Post by mnd999 »

jakub_jo wrote: post #454
mnd999 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users don’t want crappy PWAs, they want something that follows the platform UI conventions. It’s good that Apple care enough about about UX to actually enforce this.

If users don't want crappy PWAs than they wont use them. It's common sense to let "the market decide" -- why not in this case?

They won’t have a choice. Low quality crap is cheaper to make so in a lot of cases that is all there will be.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#517

Post by tonmoy »

hurtuvac78 wrote: post #250

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

Are you sure PWA doesn’t work on iOS? I remember installing websites as apps on my iPhone. According to this SO answer I think one can even make it full screen (with a workaround at least): https://stackoverflow.com/questions/53061258/pwa-not-opening...

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#518

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

neximo64 wrote: post #151
edandersen wrote: post #76

I wonder if they considered an "iPhone Europe Edition" - USB-C, side loading, physical SIM cards. Sounds like a good phone!

It will be quite undesirable to distribute apps through a means where economies of scale are not available for example if there is no US market

Europe is a large enough market by itself. It’s slightly bigger than the US one.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#519

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

chronogram wrote: post #248
asddubs wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it's true in the same way that having knives in your kitchen makes it more likely that you might cut yourself. but a kitchen without knives kind of sucks so

I don't think kitchens should have knives. I want my parents to be able to eat, but with knives in the kitchen they occasionally cut their fingers and I don't want to have to deal with that. You could make it optional but before you know it they'll get knives anyway. Besides, most people eat processed food and don't want to make meals from scratch so this is only a problem for a handful of people. (yes yes this is sa…

My parents want to cook dinner with knives. They have no interest in side loading custom applications though.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#520

Post by kiicia »

heavyset_go wrote: post #452
PlutoIsAPlanet wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And you cannot use a third party browser, since they forbid that (all are Safari based) I think this has turned out to be the current barrier in preventing Google from completing taking over the web standards space.

Apple's ban of all browsers but Safari turned out to be the main barrier preventing progressive web apps from being viable, deepening the duopoly power of themselves and Google, because Apple refuses to implement basic browser standards that are necessary for PWAs. And then when they do implement similar browser standards, they don't follow any web standards, they instead make their own proprietary bespoke web standa…

you seem to be completely sure that everyone loves and wants pwa

newsflash: many users hate pwa, they prefer native apps

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