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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#401

Post by xenonite »

vivegi wrote: post #70

From the article > In addition, developers may have to pay extra if they want their apps to be available outside of the iOS App Store, Gurman says. The statement is a bit ambiguous. Is it pay Apple extra or pay extra to the 3rd party to have their app listed in the 3rd party app store? The former doesn't sound right; It is probably FUD. Logically, a 3rd party app store could compete on significantly reduced fees rela…

No, my interpretation is that Apple either increases their fees or decreases prices for an app that is also distributed elsewhere.

I don't see a problem with that.

If a producer grants exclusive distribution rights to a seller, the typical consequence is that the seller gives the producer a greater profit share in return.

On ending those terms, the seller may rightfully reduce the profit share, in my opinion.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#402

Post by wiseowise »

aikinai wrote: post #80
andai wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they real downsides or just excuses cooked up by Apple to increase profits, and accepted by apple users to minimize cognitive dissonance?

The downsides are the obvious; security and privacy are better protected, malware is much harder to distribute and easier to shut down, fraud is more difficult. You can absolutely disagree with the trade off, but pretending like it’s purely greed is obviously disingenuous.

> The downsides are the obvious; security and privacy are better protected, malware is much harder to distribute and easier to shut down, fraud is more difficult.

Is that so? https://lifehacker.com/great-now-the-apple-app-store-has-mal...

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#403

Post by jeffybefffy519 »

I wonder how the apple store operates in the EU on devices that have sideloaded apps. Theres a bunch of liability apple can effectively shift to the end user everytime without question “sorry you sideloaded this app which may have given your malware, we cant help you”. It’s ridiculous i know but also seems plausible.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#404

Post by ko27 »

zacksiri wrote: post #395
ko27 wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is anybody else upset that people are actively making up stories to prop up Apple on HN? Most of what you said is misleading or false: > Here in Thailand banking apps fraud is rampant Citation needed (on the "rampant" part). > Most of the cases are found to be on android devices Even if it's true most of the phones in Thailand are Android. > clicking some link that installs some app Not possible the way you describe…

You can do some further reading here - https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/2524469/mobile-banking-... - https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/general/40024972 Enjoy!

I did, and you conclusions are completely wrong. I updated my comment. Do you seriously think that iOS has no screen recording apps? It's a phishing attack, you can ask the user to screen record using an app-store app and send you the recording.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#405

Post by PlutoIsAPlanet »

hurtuvac78 wrote: post #250

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

> And you cannot use a third party browser, since they forbid that (all are Safari based)

I think this has turned out to be the current barrier in preventing Google from completing taking over the web standards space.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#406

Post by Nursie »

hooby wrote: post #143

I think the central question here is: .) whether you buy a phone as a piece of hardware and then own that hardware - which gives you certain rights regarding the usage of that owned hardware or .) whether you are just paying some sort of admission fee to a tightly controlled service, and are basically "lent" a piece of hardware that you have no ownership rights over. All the other stuff about walled gardens, monopoli…

I don’t think it’s accurate to say you are conferred no ownership in the current model - this reads as typical tech binary thinking.

It’s either fully under my control or I have nothing!

For most people the ownership aspect is covered by being able to buy and sell the devices freely, and decide what apps to put on them.

They are (and before I’m accused of being patronising, I am in this group) happy with a device that is capable but more or less on rails and has the sort of security provided by third party vetting. And we don’t care at all that it’s the device vendor doing it.

I get the arguments about monopolies and the whole thing being damaging to business, which is in the end damaging to consumer choice.

But honestly “I should be able to do whatever I want at all layers of the stack on my phone” is waaaay down the priority list compared to “I want a secure device that does bank stuff, generates tokens and whatever else without me having to be vigilant like I am on an open system”.

So to me the rights argument is the red herring.

And yes, “choice” quickly becomes an avenue of exploitation for the less tech savvy.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#407

Post by jacquesm »

jeffybefffy519 wrote: post #403

I wonder how the apple store operates in the EU on devices that have sideloaded apps. Theres a bunch of liability apple can effectively shift to the end user everytime without question “sorry you sideloaded this app which may have given your malware, we cant help you”. It’s ridiculous i know but also seems plausible.

That's fine, as long as they stick to the hardware warranty requirements as spelled out in the law.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#408

Post by malermeister »

simondotau wrote: post #112
pseudo0 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So take five minutes to set up the parental controls on your children's devices. The idea that we should eliminate the ability to run arbitrary software "for the children" is completely ridiculous.

Then don’t buy an iPhone. I think it’s ridiculous that we are asking the government to save us from our own choices. As much as you and I don’t like it, what Apple is doing is perfectly legal. And as much as you or I might support a change in the law, you’re not going to get my support if the legislation is truly universal and not just a narrow-band targeting of a single company for developing an ecosystem which reso…

It's not "the government saving us from our own choices".

It's us asking our democratically elected government to stop a giant corporation from telling us what to do with our own devices.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#409

Post by wiseowise »

hayst4ck wrote: post #373
wiseowise wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://www.osha.gov/etools/machine-guarding/presses/two-han ... > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockout%E2%80%93tagout Not sure what those links are supposed to show, but having safeguards and completely disallowing something is a different matter. If all, you're just proving parent's point.

Two handed presses are a technical prevention which restricts a person from putting their hands in danger. Education was not enough. Lockout/tagout is a technical prevention which restricts other people from messing with a system that could endanger you. Education was not enough. A monopoly app store is a technical prevention that restricts someone from running un-vetted software that could potentially steal your lif…

> Two handed presses are a technical prevention which restricts a person from putting their hands in danger. Education was not enough.

That's what "Are you sure you want to enable sideloading?" toggle is.

> Lockout/tagout is a technical prevention which restricts other people from messing with a system that could endanger you. Education was not enough.

That's what OS is.

> A monopoly app store is a technical prevention that restricts someone from running un-vetted software that could potentially steal your life savings or compromise your entire digital life. Do you think education is enough?

A monopoly app store is a technical prevention that restricts someone from running un-vetted software that could potentially prevent monopoly app store revenue or god-forbid bypass DRM. So what?

And App Store absolutely does have malware https://lifehacker.com/great-now-the-apple-app-store-has-mal.... If it's not even 100% secure then it's not worth sacrificing my freedom to choose.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#410

Post by hayst4ck »

tpxl wrote: post #145
hooby wrote: post #143

I think the central question here is: .) whether you buy a phone as a piece of hardware and then own that hardware - which gives you certain rights regarding the usage of that owned hardware or .) whether you are just paying some sort of admission fee to a tightly controlled service, and are basically "lent" a piece of hardware that you have no ownership rights over. All the other stuff about walled gardens, monopoli…

As far as I'm concerned if you 'bought' something, it should be yours to do as you please, including reselling and destroying it. If you didn't buy something, but rented it - for example a game on Steam or Epic Games store - then it should damned say so. It's a straight up lie to say you purchased something if you didn't.

If we were being very pedantic, what would you say is the test of ownership? If you buy an iPhone you can sell it or destroy it, so it meets those requirements of ownership. You can't destroy something you're renting, so you clearly aren't renting an iPhone.

How would I know if I own a device or not?

If you buy an iPhone, but don't think you own it. Why don't you think you own it? If your response is "because I can't run the software I want to on it," is that a problem with the perception of what you bought or is that a violation of the idea of ownership? If that's a violation of the idea of ownership, why?

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