Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

techradar.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 1001 posts

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#141

Post by smoldesu »

geocar wrote: post #140
smoldesu wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a poor justification. You can cleanly implement a signing system for trusted developers (they've done it before), and it's obviously possible to distribute iPhone package files. All the pieces are in place, if it weren't for their $80 billion annual hayday then they wouldn't be dying on this hill in particular. Maybe part of it is this security alignment issue, but upon scrutiny it's clearly a small and solvable…

It sounds more like you’re upset about apples revshare model on their channel; Why do you care if all your competitors also have to pay it? I don’t think the world got better because we got more channels on Tv, and I even think some of them might be dangerous and harmful to life…

That's fine. I'm not arguing for more channels, I just want them to let me use it for things other than the pre-approved and Apple-sponsored channels. This is akin to your TV manufacturer removing your HDMI input to force you to pay for cable.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#142

Post by ckolkey »

simondotau wrote: post #124
canucker2016 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a personal-computer-user point of view, installing an app from any source is normal. For pre-iPhone cellphone users, your cellphone network operator controlled access to what apps were available for installation. This is was the most common, if not the only, method for cellphone app distribution. App makers (mostly java games) paid to get on that first page of downloadable apps. I'd add some references but Googl…

Personal computers really are the exception which proves the rule. Whether it’s the software in your TV, your pre-smart phone, your car, or your game console, locked down has always been the norm.

The pc predates all of your examples, so I don't think it makes sense to say "has always been the norm". Has _become_ the norm, perhaps, but thats the entire point. It's not great that it has.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#143

Post by hooby »

I think the central question here is:

.) whether you buy a phone as a piece of hardware and then own that hardware - which gives you certain rights regarding the usage of that owned hardware

or

.) whether you are just paying some sort of admission fee to a tightly controlled service, and are basically "lent" a piece of hardware that you have no ownership rights over.

All the other stuff about walled gardens, monopolies and security is related - but still acts as a red herring when discussing what rights a person should get for a piece of hardware they bought.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#145

Post by tpxl »

hooby wrote: post #143

I think the central question here is: .) whether you buy a phone as a piece of hardware and then own that hardware - which gives you certain rights regarding the usage of that owned hardware or .) whether you are just paying some sort of admission fee to a tightly controlled service, and are basically "lent" a piece of hardware that you have no ownership rights over. All the other stuff about walled gardens, monopoli…

As far as I'm concerned if you 'bought' something, it should be yours to do as you please, including reselling and destroying it. If you didn't buy something, but rented it - for example a game on Steam or Epic Games store - then it should damned say so. It's a straight up lie to say you purchased something if you didn't.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#146

Post by zarzavat »

josephcsible wrote: post #42
paxys wrote: post #15

I anticipate a huge market developing for unlocked second hand European iPhones in the US.

I don't think that will happen, because I expect Apple will do something along the lines of "unless an iDevice is signed in with an account with a verified EU credit card, and/or has been in the EU for more than 50% of the time over the last year, disable the ability to sideload and wipe all existing sideloaded apps".

Apple already has a system to set the region of a device. Go to Settings > General > Language and Region > Region.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#147

Post by smoldesu »

hayst4ck wrote: post #133
heavyset_go wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just shows that the App Store model is insufficient for user security, as the the security model was supposed to prevent malware from being distributed to users in the first place, no matter what malicious developers upload to the App Store. If Apple treats Xcode as App Store blessed because it believes it came from blessed sources like the App Store, instead of using real security measures, exploits will contin…

I can't give you a black and white response because I don't think the issue is as black and white as most seem to. I think the app store is a tool and I think it is a powerful and useful tool. Can the tool be used for good? of course. Can it also be used for bad? most definitely. Can it be wielded poorly? yes. I've used windows, linux, apple, and android, and I like Apple's environment the best. That environment is a…

> Apple limits my choices and I like that. I like having less choices. I don't want to have to think about software security

How does this conflict with other users having a developer mode? Because you want Apple to have more unilateral authority over what other businesses are and aren't allowed to do?

It sounds like you have left the domain of "what's right for the market" and headed into the realm of "what I prefer". That's fine and decent anecdata, but completely useless to regulators who's job is to save the market. If Apple is stifling innovation or competition, even for a good cause, then we must codify the goodness and end the monopoly. That's progress, arbitrary corporate grudges are not.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#148

Post by FriedPickles »

As the developer of a subscription app, if unfettered side-loading is allowed I'd be worried about cracked versions of my app being distributed.

We've done everything in the client for privacy and reliability, but the obvious countermeasure would be to move functionality over to a backend. This would be history echoing the transition from boxed software to SaaS.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#149

Post by jl6 »

otterley wrote: post #138
W4RH4WK55 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That I can just take the SIM out and put it in a different phone? what's the migration process for eSIMs?

The migration process is, you ask your carrier for a new eSIM. They send you one via QR code. That's pretty much it.

eSIM is a potentially smoother setup process if the alternative is getting a card through the mail, but physical SIM switching is better than having to contact your carrier.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#150

Post by Hamuko »

otterley wrote: post #138
W4RH4WK55 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That I can just take the SIM out and put it in a different phone? what's the migration process for eSIMs?

The migration process is, you ask your carrier for a new eSIM. They send you one via QR code. That's pretty much it.

And then your carrier bills you 3€ for it, because they can. They can also just disable the iPhone-to-iPhone eSIM transfer functionality. Ask me how I know.

eSIMs are incredibly user-hostile because they switch the ownership of a SIM card from the customer to the provider, so you're completely at their mercy if you need to transfer over your SIM card from one device to another. And Apple facilitates this.

Post reply on HN