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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#31

Post by kevingadd »

gary_0 wrote: post #20
superkuh wrote: post #14

Even if this is small progress the headlines and framing of the story are still doublespeak. Installing applications on your computer is the normal state of things. Walled gardens and not having control of your computer is the new weird thing. The word "sideloading" is a feudal concept and it's unquestioned use is dangerous for society. Properly stated this story title is, "Installing applications on iOS 17 might be…

Even on Windows if I send an EXE or MSI of my software to someone they get a scary security warning that prevents them from running it. The only guaranteed way around that is to be a big company (or a big open-source project). If security really mattered, every OS would run applications in a proper sandbox, but why bother with that when you can just point your Web browser at a program running on someone else's server…

Code signing and associated warnings are significantly different from fully prohibiting the execution of unapproved code, I'm not sure why people struggle with the distinction. Windows has been doing this mostly the same way for literal decades.

iOS has a full sandbox which would apply even to "side loaded" applications, which makes the arbitrary constraint even more ridiculous as a "for your own good" measure.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#32

Post by kevingadd »

gary_0 wrote: post #24
jacknews wrote: post #16

"It's for your safety and security" Words that should send a chill down every spine. It's obviously just a monopoly. They could easily have an 'allow sideloading' option in the OS, and those that are happy with Apple's curation can leave it off, and everyone else can turn it on.

Monopoly? How about digital feudalism. "We've put ourselves in charge of protecting you, so we're going to help ourselves to a portion of everyone's gold, and make sure none of the serfs are up to anything we don't approve of."

The way they aggressively police things on their app store, including "inappropriate" subversive content like Project Gutenberg, while taking 30% of everyone's revenue definitely sells the feudalism angle.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#33

Post by MBCook »

Duh?

The EU has no jurisdiction over the US. So there will be no legal need for Apple to allow it here. Just like they don’t allow alternate payment methods for dating apps in the US like some other countries required and Apple had to comply with.

The App Store is too critical to the way Apple sees things, they’re not going to just say “oh well”. I bet things are only open for EU residents with EU purchased phones. Buy an EU phone and activate with a US account? Bet it’s locked.

Also expect them to make hay over any security/scam issues with 3rd party stores/side loading. Something WILL happen and when reporters ask Apple they’ll be more than happy to point out how great the App Store is suggest users stick to it and blame bad regulations for making EU users less safe.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#34

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

overthrow wrote: post #29
sfe22 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It kind of makes sense. Both are closed systems that place rules what is good or bad for their members. If we cannot trust a person to choose whether a certain salary is good or bad for them, why would we trust them to decide what apps are good or bad for them?

The minimum wage is beneficial because employers tend to have more leverage than employees in the relationship. It's actually similar to the leverage Apple has over its users. And they've used that leverage to control what apps people are allowed to use. So the EU forcing Apple to let users install apps serves a similar purpose as the minimum wage - both are curtailing potential abuses against a group of people with…

The same logic applies. Users have less leverage over popular apps. Hence they rely on someone who has more leverage over the app developers (Apple) to shift the balance on their favor.

Note that most of the complaints about Apple’s ecosystem are from developers, not from actual users.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#36

Post by afavour »

MBCook wrote: post #33

Duh? The EU has no jurisdiction over the US. So there will be no legal need for Apple to allow it here. Just like they don’t allow alternate payment methods for dating apps in the US like some other countries required and Apple had to comply with. The App Store is too critical to the way Apple sees things, they’re not going to just say “oh well”. I bet things are only open for EU residents with EU purchased phones. B…

It’s absolutely not as simple as “duh”. Not giving users a feature they want because it’s in your business interests to deny it is a difficult PR move, to put it mildly. Not to mention such a disparity in feature between different regions is pretty huge.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#37

Post by charcircuit »

josephcsible wrote: post #2

Hasn't Apple always said the reason they don't allow sideloading was that it'd be impossible without compromising security? So are they claiming their European iDevices won't be secure anymore, or are they admitting they were lying before and that the real reason was nothing but greed?

Security isn't binary. European iDevices will likely have more malware installed on them on average than US iDevices.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#38

Post by charcircuit »

superkuh wrote: post #14

Even if this is small progress the headlines and framing of the story are still doublespeak. Installing applications on your computer is the normal state of things. Walled gardens and not having control of your computer is the new weird thing. The word "sideloading" is a feudal concept and it's unquestioned use is dangerous for society. Properly stated this story title is, "Installing applications on iOS 17 might be…

>Installing applications on your computer is the normal state of things.

It really wasn't. It wasn't normal to install arbitrary applications on the computers in your fridge, dishwasher, game consoles, flip phones, washing machines, etc. Platforms have varied over time in how open they are to having other people developing for them. iOS is an example of a more closed platform and has shown that closed platforms can be successful. You can see Windows as a more open platform in comparison which was also successful. How open a platform is comes with different trade offs.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#39

Post by userbinator »

gary_0 wrote: post #26
userbinator wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they get a scary security warning that prevents them from running it. The huge difference is that's only a warning, and not a cryptographically locked-down system unlike Apple's.

Call me paranoid, but I see it as a slippery slope. And for most users that security warning is as good as a cryptographic lockdown anyways.

They are certainly boiling the frog slowly.

And for most users that security warning is as good as a cryptographic lockdown anyways.

On the other hand, I find it ironic how a lot of "security professionals" will complain constantly about users accepting security warnings with no thought anyway (and they usually use this argument to justify their increasingly authoritarian measures of controlling them.)

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#40

Post by asddubs »

josephcsible wrote: post #2

Hasn't Apple always said the reason they don't allow sideloading was that it'd be impossible without compromising security? So are they claiming their European iDevices won't be secure anymore, or are they admitting they were lying before and that the real reason was nothing but greed?

I suppose it's true in the same way that having knives in your kitchen makes it more likely that you might cut yourself. but a kitchen without knives kind of sucks so
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