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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#351

Post by rand846633 »

vore wrote: post #255
pmontra wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last time I dropped my phone and broke its screen I took out the SIM and left the phone in a repair shop. I went home, put the SIM in an old phone. If the broken phone had an eSIM, would I been able to use the old one as a backup? Maybe by going to a shop and askig for a physical SIM. That would be slower and less convenient. A physical SIM fits in a Samsung A40 which is probably the smaller and lighter Android p…

If your old phone was also eSIM compatible, you can just download the eSIM from your carrier like you would if you moved to any other phone.

Btw, how would one authenticate to the carrier? Concerned anything not perfect would make sim swapping a even bigger problem…

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#352

Post by wiseowise »

hayst4ck wrote: post #294
shrx wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Preventing people from doing something "for their own good" is never the right solution. Instead, we should strive to educate people on proper online safety measures so that they don't fall victim to fraudulent attempts.

> preventing people from doing something "for their own good" is never the right solution. https://www.osha.gov/etools/machine-guarding/presses/two-han... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockout%E2%80%93tagout > educate people on proper online safety measures so that they don't fall victim to fraudulent attempts. This is so inefficient and prone to failure. You think you're an expert, but my mom is not an expert. I don…

> https://www.osha.gov/etools/machine-guarding/presses/two-han...

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockout%E2%80%93tagout

Not sure what those links are supposed to show, but having safeguards and completely disallowing something is a different matter.

If all, you're just proving parent's point.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#353

Post by wiseowise »

tonylemesmer wrote: post #264
shrx wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Preventing people from doing something "for their own good" is never the right solution. Instead, we should strive to educate people on proper online safety measures so that they don't fall victim to fraudulent attempts.

Engineering disagrees. Having safety interlocks on machines is seen as necessary and sensible to prevent accidental harm. If you want to achieve something that you think sideloading is the only answer for then maybe try and find another solution? Btw. I’m not arguing we shouldn’t educate people about the dangers of phishing etc etc. just that engineers should find better solutions than shortcuts. Some people will nev…

> Engineering disagrees. Having safety interlocks on machines is seen as necessary and sensible to prevent accidental harm.

> safety interlocks

That's what sideloading switch is.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#354

Post by DCKing »

zacksiri wrote: post #242

[flagged]

As pointed out in other replies I don't think you're doing a good job to connect bank fraud to sideloading here, and therefore I don't really believe that they are so directly connected. But for the sake of discussion I can assume there's some truth to it. It is true that Apple's restricting freedoms could have some positive side effects, so I'm happy to go along with this gut feeling.

> I suspect that the EU will regret forcing Apple to enabling sideloading when the number of fraud cases go up.

Maybe some degree of that is worth it? The functioning of digital markets and preventing platform monopolies seems very intrinsically valuable for both ethical and economical reasons. Moreover, it's highly unlikely this will be in some cartoon situation with some massive explosion of fraud.

What if this is just a small price worth paying? Something we need to accept in our lives and help further focus education efforts? That seems like a more valuable discussion than most of the discussion going on in this thread.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#356

Post by anonzzzies »

fortuna86 wrote: post #232
seydor wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you are just paying some sort of admission fee to a tightly controlled service iphones act as social signaling for alot of people

I've heard this, I haven't seen this. Maybe a smart phone was a status symbol 10 years ago, they are just commodities today.

I do recognise it; large iPhones and Apple Watches are still about twice the price of the competitor. And people with Android phones are considered poor here.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#357

Post by wiseowise »

mikebos wrote: post #317
shrx wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Preventing people from doing something "for their own good" is never the right solution. Instead, we should strive to educate people on proper online safety measures so that they don't fall victim to fraudulent attempts.

That a very American viewpoint. This is why Americans have a gun problem with all the school shootings and random killing going on there. Sometimes it's a good idea to don't let people do something for their own good.

Love how we're equating sideloading to school shootings.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#358

Post by sverhagen »

the_common_man wrote: post #272
vladvasiliu wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think those alternatives are the right ones. You can sell your iphone without any issue, there are plenty of stores around me offering to buy used models to resell. I'm actually contemplating buying a used model. Can't do that with steam games. I'm also pretty confident that if apple and their services disappeared tomorrow, my iphone would keep on working just like it does today. Sure, no more updates, no mor…

How would one install or update an app if apple and services disappear?

Ha! Sideloading!

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#359

Post by sbuk »

baby wrote: post #236
hooby wrote: post #143

I think the central question here is: .) whether you buy a phone as a piece of hardware and then own that hardware - which gives you certain rights regarding the usage of that owned hardware or .) whether you are just paying some sort of admission fee to a tightly controlled service, and are basically "lent" a piece of hardware that you have no ownership rights over. All the other stuff about walled gardens, monopoli…

Related question: what does the user want? I doubt a majority of users are against side loading.

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” attributed to Henry Ford.

While listening to feedback is not a bad thing, design by focus group rarely works out well. You risk ending up with things like this https://i.imgur.com/IoPkza2.png! While this is obviously a joke, it does contain grains of truth.

The other problem with this argument is how the question is framed? Are the majority of users armed with all the facts and details? While I'd agree many are overstating the issues, there are equally as many dismissing any issues out of hand. IMHO, it behooves any one suggesting what "the majority" want to at least do a thought experiment around the pro's and con's and be honest about what they are. We cannot have this here, sadly. This should extend to any government that are enforcing something like this to transparently lay out the pros and cons and maybe accept some of the liability. That though, is asking too much of politicians...

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#360

Post by zeta0134 »

hurtuvac78 wrote: post #250

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

The full screen feature works fine on websites for me? Well mostly fine, it's rubbish for games in particular due to a user hostile feature that forbids rapid screen taps, insisting that you might be using an on screen keyboard and denying you the autonomy to tell Safari to please not. But ignoring that, the feature seems to exist. What am I missing?
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