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I'm sure they won't make it easy. There will be many warnings and scary prompts about external apps being untrusted. Definitely not installable with a stray click.
iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
291–300 of 1001 posts
Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
No. Preventing people from doing something "for their own good" is never the right solution. Instead, we should strive to educate people on proper online safety measures so that they don't fall victim to fraudulent attempts.
I'm surprised that there are many cases as to enable sideboarding on Android you basically have to go to settings and enable option that basically tell you that this isn't a good idea if you don't know what you are doing and then you have to do the same for the application that triggers the install. but on the other hand I already saw people trying Linux and being surprised that after multiple confirmations "this is…
> and enable option that basically tell you that this isn't a good idea
... and people just click though it without reading, because it's UX 101 -- nobody reads your texts, manuals and things while in the flow.
Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But I’m afraid that with sideloading allowed, most software vendors will go sideloading-only. That means, nobody will have any control over their app’s privilege requests, behavior and other security related things. There is no reason why side-loading means "not sandboxed". Apps still need to use Apple SDKs to interface with the OS, so there is still an opportunity to request permissions and for the user to deny pe…
…and for an app to refuse to work without this irrelevant permission. This is my exact experience with an android phone and a quest of searching a ruler app. Ended up on lifehacker and a direct link to the app. Play store only suggested the most dark patterned apps in existence.
You should give F-Droid a try. It's only open source apps with no shady shit. I'd love something like that to come to iOS as a result of this all.
Case in point: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlyru...
https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlyta...
Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
#294[flagged]
No. Preventing people from doing something "for their own good" is never the right solution. Instead, we should strive to educate people on proper online safety measures so that they don't fall victim to fraudulent attempts.
> preventing people from doing something "for their own good" is never the right solution.
https://www.osha.gov/etools/machine-guarding/presses/two-han...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockout%E2%80%93tagout
> educate people on proper online safety measures so that they don't fall victim to fraudulent attempts.
This is so inefficient and prone to failure. You think you're an expert, but my mom is not an expert. I don't want to educate my mom, I want to just hand her something that's safe to use.
Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is naive. Apple doesn't protect you. The prime example is that apple gives apps unfettered access to network connections. And YOU are unable to block this in any meaningful way. What apple doesn't give you is the ability to manage your own phone. You cannot really manage what apps are doing yourself. You cannot even find out what apps are doing. And you definitely will not be able to manage apple apps, they get…
> This is naive. Apple doesn't protect you. Apple has no commercial interest in breaking the users privacy and trust. Their business model is not to sell ads or work with 3rd party advertisers.
Apple sells ads. https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/apple-advertisin...
They track the stories you read on News & Stocks, and track your location to give you personalized ads.
This integrates with Google Ad Manager 360 as well. They work with 3rd parties. https://support.apple.com/guide/adguide/integrate-workbench-...
Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
#296I imagine the real reason here is that EU companies want to avoid the 30% fee Apple collects on all online purchases with IOS apps. It's doubtful any savings will be passed on to consumers, anyway.
It's likely Apple will do what Google does and instead tie their app store into various apis and services (e.g. Google Play) so that side-loaded apps have a very difficult if not impossible time integrating with the phone in a way that users expect and desire.
Seems like the EU bureaucracy goes after big entrenched US tech companies again and again, but they never really obtain any W's. They spent years fighting against Microsoft's bundling of IE and Media Player, and all that ever happened was that MS released some Euro-only version of a few Windows releases without the bundling. But both IE and Media Player were displaced within a few years anyway, regardless of any EU rules.
Likewise, all the GPDR rules seemed to have accomplished is that every site now has an annoying-as-hell "click here to accept all cookies" button that everyone has learned to just auto accept. I doubt Europeans have anymore actual privacy compared to the rest of us, especially since their own governments are far more interested in tracking their citizens online behavior with regard to tax avoidance, hate speech, etc - they absolutely require US Big Tech to keep track of all this info for them to quietly subpoena as needed.
Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
#297Earlier quoted context omitted.
In theory eSIM allows for self service without going to a store or waiting for shipping. In practice you might be on hold with your phone company for an hour. Some USA MVNOs don’t support eSIM.
Sounds terrible. Here in socialist Europe it is exactly as easy as I just made it sound.
Not everywhere in Europe..., In Slovakia 3/4 operators have single-use QR codes (and for the 4th you have to first remove your eSIM from your old phone before transferring to new, which wouldn't help in case of broken/stolen phone) and none of them have an easy to use web interface to generate a new one, you have to contact support somehow for them to generate it for you.
One operator even charges 10€ for a new QR code for your eSIM (same price as getting a new physical SIM card).
Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
#298I think Apple has also done good things with their strict app store policies (from my consumer point of view). Apple has been for example putting limits on data collection and tracking. The main mechanism is to kick apps out from Apps store if they don't play by the rules. I'm worried that side loading will be a step back here. Strong players, like Facebook, may just take their app away from the official store and di…
This is naive. Apple doesn't protect you. The prime example is that apple gives apps unfettered access to network connections. And YOU are unable to block this in any meaningful way. What apple doesn't give you is the ability to manage your own phone. You cannot really manage what apps are doing yourself. You cannot even find out what apps are doing. And you definitely will not be able to manage apple apps, they get…
> You cannot even find out what apps are doing.
Wrong. You CAN find out what apps are doing: Settings → Privacy → App Privacy Report
> And you definitely will not be able to manage apple apps, they get a free pass in all ways.
You can outright delete most Apple apps.
> Apple doesn't protect you.
said the wolf about the fence.
Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is naive. Apple doesn't protect you. The prime example is that apple gives apps unfettered access to network connections. And YOU are unable to block this in any meaningful way. What apple doesn't give you is the ability to manage your own phone. You cannot really manage what apps are doing yourself. You cannot even find out what apps are doing. And you definitely will not be able to manage apple apps, they get…
> This is naive. Apple doesn't protect you. Apple has no commercial interest in breaking the users privacy and trust. Their business model is not to sell ads or work with 3rd party advertisers.
Latest moves seem to imply Apple might want a slice of the Ad network pie.
So I wouldn't bet on capitalistic ideals/incentives not overtaking idealistic consumer protections.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-08-14/apple-...
Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
#300Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The prime example is that apple gives apps unfettered access to network connections. (…) You cannot even find out what apps are doing. Settings -> Privacy & Security -> App Privacy Report It shows you per application what data they are accessing, which sensors they are accessing and which domains the app is contacting. It also reports when they were doing this and how often. You can even export this data as a JSON…
Only took them iOS 15.2 for this.
How long did it take for Android to have finely grained permissions?