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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#201

Post by pjerem »

jb1991 wrote: post #196
heywoodlh wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't have much choice I hope I don't come across as snarky -- I am genuinely curious -- but why don't you have a choice? Are you unable to contact friends, family, etc. any other way outside of FB? The phrasing seems so strong, I am second guessing if I am just privileged/lucky (location, friend/family circumstances, etc?) to be off of social media but still have friends and family that I stay connected to. EDIT…

I would normally agree with you, but a friend of mine is an immigrant from a south east Asian nation and the only way to easily communicate is through Facebook with the family there. It’s like saying, sure we can take away your phone and you can still write letters, but at some point communication is also about convenience.

Can’t this friend install something else on his phone ? Signal maybe ?

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#202

Post by daevout »

superkuh wrote: post #14

Even if this is small progress the headlines and framing of the story are still doublespeak. Installing applications on your computer is the normal state of things. Walled gardens and not having control of your computer is the new weird thing. The word "sideloading" is a feudal concept and it's unquestioned use is dangerous for society. Properly stated this story title is, "Installing applications on iOS 17 might be…

That is a good way of looking at it. What's missing is a catchy name to debase store-based installation similar to what was done through "sideloading". Perhaps "lord-loading", "begstalling", "babybiting", etc.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#203

Post by wruza »

wvenable wrote: post #187
rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The HN crowd is overcomplicating the issue, and Apple has as much a right as an individual to design their platform as they wish. We like to talk about giving businesses the freedom to build the products that they want and keeping regulators out of the picture and instead letting people vote with their money, yet when people actually vote with their money to buy Apple products precisely for how they are built, w…

I see no moral issue with government regulation to make our lives better. People would still buy cars if seatbelts weren't a standard feature. They'd still by deodorant if it put holes in the ozone. Vote with their money only works if companies make a product you can buy. Where's the iPhone "unlocked edition" that costs $20 more that I can buy? They don't make it.

$appliancevendorname also doesn’t make +$20 programmable washers. Arguments like this only appear when there’s an urge for an argument. Just buy an unlocked android phone, they exist with similar or better hw for $500 less.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#204

Post by zamnos »

pjerem wrote: post #201
jb1991 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would normally agree with you, but a friend of mine is an immigrant from a south east Asian nation and the only way to easily communicate is through Facebook with the family there. It’s like saying, sure we can take away your phone and you can still write letters, but at some point communication is also about convenience.

Can’t this friend install something else on his phone ? Signal maybe ?

Cool. Does signal allow you to register without a phone number yet? Data-only plans with no phone number attached are quite common in some countries.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#205

Post by jkaplowitz »

hayst4ck wrote: post #175
hooby wrote: post #143

I think the central question here is: .) whether you buy a phone as a piece of hardware and then own that hardware - which gives you certain rights regarding the usage of that owned hardware or .) whether you are just paying some sort of admission fee to a tightly controlled service, and are basically "lent" a piece of hardware that you have no ownership rights over. All the other stuff about walled gardens, monopoli…

While that might be the choice we're making and it seems like the first is obviously what owning a device should be like. What if I actually want to pay a fee to a tightly controlled service? Like what if I do the math and determine that that benefits me more than actually owning the device? Should a regulatory agency be able to come in and tell this tightly controlled service they aren't doing it right when I am a h…

Then Apple should have to call it “Subscribe to iPhone “ or “Gain admission to iPhone” or “Use iPhone” - but not “Buy iPhone” as they very much do. If you buy a piece of hardware, you buy a piece of hardware.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#206

Post by tinus_hn »

geocar wrote: post #121
W4RH4WK55 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That I can just take the SIM out and put it in a different phone? what's the migration process for eSIMs?

Better: it’s a menu option. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212780 eSIMs also have the advantage of an activation card can be sent instantly from almost anywhere (it’s a QR code) which is great if your phone (and physical sim) are lost or damaged.

If the phone breaks it’s much easier to just transfer the card to a different phone though, if a code needs to be sent there’s the identification problems.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#207

Post by gavinsyancey »

pjerem wrote: post #201
jb1991 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would normally agree with you, but a friend of mine is an immigrant from a south east Asian nation and the only way to easily communicate is through Facebook with the family there. It’s like saying, sure we can take away your phone and you can still write letters, but at some point communication is also about convenience.

Can’t this friend install something else on his phone ? Signal maybe ?

He'd then have to convince everyone else he wants to talk to to use Signal instead of Facebook. That's the hard part.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#208

Post by m463 »

jpalomaki wrote: post #180

I think Apple has also done good things with their strict app store policies (from my consumer point of view). Apple has been for example putting limits on data collection and tracking. The main mechanism is to kick apps out from Apps store if they don't play by the rules. I'm worried that side loading will be a step back here. Strong players, like Facebook, may just take their app away from the official store and di…

This is naive. Apple doesn't protect you.

The prime example is that apple gives apps unfettered access to network connections. And YOU are unable to block this in any meaningful way.

What apple doesn't give you is the ability to manage your own phone. You cannot really manage what apps are doing yourself. You cannot even find out what apps are doing. And you definitely will not be able to manage apple apps, they get a free pass in all ways.

But yes, if there's a sideloaded facebook app, or a facebook store, you will be given more rope to do with as you want.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#209

Post by Barrin92 »

nuker wrote: post #110

I bet you a tenner Facebook immediately moves out of EU App Store and will be sideload only, with all privacy related permissions required for the app to run.

Given that this is Europe where the GDPR requires consent regardless of how any app is installed you stand to lose that bet (which is why this is not the case on Android).

The Apple cartel protection-racket framing makes only sense in a market without privacy regulations, in the EU choice and privacy aren't mutually exclusive.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#210

Post by zamnos »

daevout wrote: post #202
superkuh wrote: post #14

Even if this is small progress the headlines and framing of the story are still doublespeak. Installing applications on your computer is the normal state of things. Walled gardens and not having control of your computer is the new weird thing. The word "sideloading" is a feudal concept and it's unquestioned use is dangerous for society. Properly stated this story title is, "Installing applications on iOS 17 might be…

That is a good way of looking at it. What's missing is a catchy name to debase store-based installation similar to what was done through "sideloading". Perhaps "lord-loading", "begstalling", "babybiting", etc.

Apple-blessed install
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