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I worked at Google for -10 days

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Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#411

Post by hammyhavoc »

bojo wrote: post #48

I've had a similar story happen in the past. I was living in Japan looking for remote jobs and came across Couchbase. Interviewed well with the team who all seemed excited to get someone with my experience on board, however, the hiring manager said he wasn't sure he wanted to manage someone in my timezone. He pulled me into a separate call at the end of the rounds and asked some weird questions, which in hindsight we…

Wishing you and yours less strain and more happiness going forward, mate. That's rough.

Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#412

Post by bbarn »

actionablefiber wrote: post #316
ghaff wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is far more sensible advice than all the "there ought to be a law" (in which jurisdiction?) comments on this thread and probably also more realistic than trying to figure out how to protect yourself 100% against any eventuality. Even without moving internationally, managers change, executives decide to cancel projects or cut back headcount, etc. Sure, that can happen a year down the road too. But if something is…

I mean, the advice is "use a giant pile of money to set up and maintain a dual-home situation until you are satisfied that the job will pan out." Laws are supposed to protect people who don't have the resources to proactively hedge against stuff like this.

Anyone who owns a house is going to have to "set up a dual home situation" I think. Houses don't sell overnight - and in this case I got an offer the day it went on the market. Still took almost a month to close.

If you're one of the millions of Americans 2-3 missed paychecks from poverty, then yes, it can be difficult. Generally speaking though, this is not the crowd considering international moves for jobs, especially within this forum.

Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#413

Post by yellowapple »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #409
yellowapple wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still don't understand how this isn't considered fraud Because there are 168 hours in a week and each full-time job only consumes 40 of them. Now, if the employers are competitors of one another, or there's otherwise something that would produce a conflict of interest, then that's another story - but beyond that? As long as you're fulfilling your duties for both jobs, it's neither employers' business what you do…

You really think people doing this are working 80 hours a week, 40 on each job? That seems unlikely to me, but maybe not to you? Or you're saying it's like plausible deniability, like nobody can prove they weren't, or something? I wonder if GP who mentioned giving his two weeks notice on first day of new job... was planning on working 80 hour weeks for two weeks while they overlapped?

> That seems unlikely to me, but maybe not to you? Or you're saying it's like plausible deniability, like nobody can prove they weren't, or something?

I mean, there were times in my career where I was working 12+ hour days for one employer, so working 16+ hour days for two doesn't seem like that much of a stretch; still leaves you with 8 hours of sleep. I've known enough workaholics in my time to know that it ain't beyond the realm of possibility.

But yes, it's more of a plausible deniability thing. Either/both employers would need to prove that you weren't working 40 hours a week for them, which is not only impossible (good luck proving a negative) but a much higher standard than is reasonable in the first place (especially for programmers, having a full 40 productive hours a week is rare and unsustainable; half that or less is more typical).

Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#414

Post by lannisterstark »

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #361
VikingCoder wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

George Carlin: Everyone who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everyone who drives faster than you is an asshole.

It's a good joke, but isn't that accurate? If I'm driving at the proper speed, anyone driving faster or slower is wrong.

What absurd statement. Speed limit isn't "proper speed." It's even called a limit. You go rate of traffic, faster or slower as they adapt. Yes that means going over or under the limit.

Sometimes people facemashing into the keyboard also reveals idiocy.

Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#415

Post by lannisterstark »

blcknight wrote: post #350
code_runner wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm not saying that the company has no responsibility... any company (even one as massive as google) can do better than an email and "so bad so sad". However, regardless of economic factors, the process of quitting your job, selling your house, and most of your belongings is inherently risky! In this case its VERY high risk VERY high reward (at least in my estimation). This definitely disadvantages people needing to…

> we can't eliminate the risk of such a massive decision Lol we literally can, or at least mitigate. It’s easy to pass a law (if the particular legislature works for its people and not the corporate interests) that makes job offers binding and getting out of them requires making the other party at least partially whole.

Promissory estoppel already exists.

Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#416

Post by tharkun__ »

taylodl wrote: post #386
alanfranz wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that they may terminate immediately as soon as you give them notice. Which is nonsense, because it’s the employee that chooses when to tell the employer. If I want to exfiltrate confidential data, I’ll do it first, then I resign. It’s different on layoffs, where disgruntled employees could break havoc.

That's not how Corporate Accountability works. If you tender your resignation and I continue to provide you access to the systems then I'm accountable for having continued your access to those systems. If you exfiltrated confidential data prior to tendering your resignation then no one remaining in the organization is responsible for your actions. It may trigger a policy review to minimize the exfiltration of confide…

Which is still bonkers. Plenty of people with high level access have notice periods of 6 months in some European countries and work their remaining time after giving notice or at least part of it, because they negotiated the 6 down to 2 or 3.

Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#417

Post by efitz »

tharkun__ wrote: post #416
taylodl wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how Corporate Accountability works. If you tender your resignation and I continue to provide you access to the systems then I'm accountable for having continued your access to those systems. If you exfiltrated confidential data prior to tendering your resignation then no one remaining in the organization is responsible for your actions. It may trigger a policy review to minimize the exfiltration of confide…

Which is still bonkers. Plenty of people with high level access have notice periods of 6 months in some European countries and work their remaining time after giving notice or at least part of it, because they negotiated the 6 down to 2 or 3.

If an employee has been malicious during their tenure then other systems should have detected and caught that. That scenario can be decoupled from the termination scenario.

Think about making a 2x2 matrix (nod to Pascal’s wager):

Across the top: fire immediately, don’t fire immediately.

Down the side: employee is benign, employee is malicious.

There’s only one square where the company is at risk- bottom right.

The algebra is easy: terminate immediately and the company is not at risk.

Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#418

Post by joncrane »

moralestapia wrote: post #266
bojo wrote: post #48

I've had a similar story happen in the past. I was living in Japan looking for remote jobs and came across Couchbase. Interviewed well with the team who all seemed excited to get someone with my experience on board, however, the hiring manager said he wasn't sure he wanted to manage someone in my timezone. He pulled me into a separate call at the end of the rounds and asked some weird questions, which in hindsight we…

After 15+ years on the industry and being on all sides of the table (hiring, firing, being hired, being fired, interviewing, prospecting candidates, etc...) I haven't found a situation where HR makes things better . What's the point of HR? Can't we do without them? Really. Edit: This tweet[0] which is pretty much a rant in disguise has a point. What if AI has a much better success rate on this? Recruiters are clueles…

I've had two companies where HR made things better, but much of that was because I became personal friends with at least one person in HR.

A lot of HR professionals genuinely want the employees to be happy and healthy and all that. A lot of HR professionals are stymied in their efforts by other executives that either prioritize money or came up in hardship and think everybody should experience the same hardship.

To be clear both of the companies in question were small US Federal government contractors. Since pay is pretty standard across the sector, the way many choose to distinguish themselves is though benefits, culture, and things like that.

Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#419

Post by DangitBobby »

conductr wrote: post #347
saagarjha wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your company is doing the something that is legal but still a jerk move.

Not really, they could be exposed to risk and it's typical to just pay you for the 2 weeks and cut off access so the risk is mitigated

In what way would they be exposed to risk? If I had a desire to exfiltrate to your competitor, I would just not bother telling you I'm leaving, exfiltrate, and give zero notice. Having this policy just makes you look like an idiot.

Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#420

Post by attentive »

stickfigure wrote: post #345

I'm not sure why anyone hasn't brought up the elephant in the room. OP, you're now an unemployed male of draftable age living in Russia, which is doing poorly in a war with your neighbor. Depending on how the anticipated Ukranian spring offensive fares, extremely bad things could happen to you very soon. You already made yourself mobile. This would be a good time to take a six-month vacation anywhere outside Russia.…

yep, it's not even guaranteed to be allowed to leave russia at this point. And it'll only get worse.
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