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Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

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Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#351

Post by pentae »

cronix wrote: post #262
pentae wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whilst I agree with your sentiment wait until you try a gently used M1 Macbook Air one day. After a tawdry love affair you'll want to toss the hot noisy intel machines in the garbage .. at least I did, anyway

Maybe. Not everyone does work where more horsepower does anything useful. Still coding away daily on my 10 year old MBP. Only maintenance I've done was install a new $60 battery 2 years ago that any non-apple specific computer repair shop could install in 10 minutes. I'll upgrade when 1) the machine dies or 2) it doesn't actually do something I need it to and I become less efficient

It's not just about horsepower it's about battery life and thermals. Especially those of us living in a hot climate not typing on a space heater is a big deal

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#352

Post by fomine3 »

makeitdouble wrote: post #342
freeplay wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, I think it's pretty obvious this has less to do with M1/M2 tech specs and more to do with the vast majority of Americans getting a couple checks from the government which basically cover the exact price of a new Macbook.

These are worldwide shipment numbers.

Other countries may also gave a check to people like the US. I got 100kJPY ($900) from Japan govt. Also everyone stop travelling in 2020.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#353

Post by fomine3 »

ta1243 wrote: post #132
propogandist wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A thinkpad would offer great build quality, although some of that is slipping due to Lenovo’s cost cutting strategies. Unfortunately, today’s Windows OS is spyware, especially Windows 11, so the entire OS needs to be removed, if you want a good machine which fires not constantly send usage data to the Azure mothership, or some 3rd party.

People have being lamenting the death of thinkpad for nearly 20 years. Lenovo purchase in 2005, keyboard changes in 2012, etc It's still here, and still solid

The great IBM ThinkPad is dead, long live with ThinkPad. Still a bit better than other laptops.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#354

Post by pjmlp »

propogandist wrote: post #94
quickthrower2 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lenovo Flex, Asus Vivobook, Dell XPS13 Desktops are a different breed. They last forever.

A thinkpad would offer great build quality, although some of that is slipping due to Lenovo’s cost cutting strategies. Unfortunately, today’s Windows OS is spyware, especially Windows 11, so the entire OS needs to be removed, if you want a good machine which fires not constantly send usage data to the Azure mothership, or some 3rd party.

Better avoid Android or ChromeOS as well then.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#356

Post by panick21_ »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #347
panick21_ wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Supporting standard 3D API on that hardware wouldn't be that hard. They don't have that much different hardware that supporting a driver for it would be that difficult. > Give up their App Store revenue They are not giving up anything they currently earn, they would be adding sales of hardware and games. They could make a deal with Steam or make their own steam and make it easy for Games to port their gam…

> wouldn't be that hard. What are you basing that on? They’ve spent a lot of time talking about how optimized the hardware and software are for each other, why are you so sure that getting equivalent performance and efficiency would be easy? Consider how trash MoltenVK is compared to Metal. About the best you can say is that it technically works. > not giving up anything they currently earn That’s not how Apple think…

Because with very few developers Asahi Linux people have made a huge amount of progress. Apple could have 10x as many people working on it and it would be a tiny drop in the bucket. Even if you lose some performance, its still worth it to run Vulcan software.

> never going to let someone else in the pool again

Then make a proper games platform that is easy to target for games that are already on steam.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#357

Post by CoolCold »

criddell wrote: post #170
ta1243 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have being lamenting the death of thinkpad for nearly 20 years. Lenovo purchase in 2005, keyboard changes in 2012, etc It's still here, and still solid

A ThinkPad running Windows is not solid compared to a recent MacBook running macOS. Part of it is due to Lenovo (plastic case that flexes, crappy trackpad, terrible speakers, etc…), part is Intel’s fault (CPU that runs hot and uses a lot of power) and part is due to Windows (a weird sleep mode that has the fan spinning even when the machine is closed and in a bag). This is all from my experience with a recent P1. May…

Yeah, hopefully x13s gen2 will be such device [for those who care on battery usage].

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#358

Post by BeefWellington »

KerrAvon wrote: post #259
BeefWellington wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 99% of Apple's customers don't know what an M1 is or what the difference is to an Intel CPU. I don't think that actually matters at all to most Apple customers. What I do think matters to most is the advertising that went into it that turned "Apple Chips" and "Apple Silicon" into phrases people actually using outside of tech circles. They wanted one because it was new and different, regardless of what those differe…

Why have this level of disdain for the mental capabilities of a huge subset of the population? Why even say this out loud if you must think it? 99% of Apple's customers can certainly recognize "it's a fuckton faster than my previous laptop" when they see it. Apple Silicon is across the board perceivably faster than any previous Macs.

> Why have this level of disdain for the mental capabilities of a huge subset of the population? Why even say this out loud if you must think it?

I don't have disdain for people's mental capabilities. I'm saying that for Apple fans the chance to own something that the company marketed as 'Chip by Apple' computers there's a really big draw. They've developed a market that is eager to consume their brand more than the technology itself. I don't think those people are dumb because of that, there's a lot to like about Apple's gear.

My point was rather that the technological aspects of it aren't really going to play into it as much and haven't for a long time. You could see this in the mid-90s to early 00s era Macs. People happily bought slower less capable systems because they looked good and they preferred the OS over everything else.

> 99% of Apple's customers can certainly recognize "it's a fuckton faster than my previous laptop" when they see it.

I'd actually be surprised if that were true since I don't believe the same about users of other systems either. If you eliminate the "new OS" effect I'd be amazed if it were anything above around 25%, if that.

Now, had you suggested that it doesn't heat up anywhere near as much or some other obviously perceptible thing then sure.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#359

Post by labcomputer »

wtallis wrote: post #190
labcomputer wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I would, and I dare say most people are the same, prefer to have the option for 3% lower memory bandwidth in exchange for 4x more memory. There’s no justification for Apple’s memory prices.

Where do you get that "3% lower memory bandwidth" figure from? LPDDR5 is running at 6400 MT/s on at least Apple and Intel platforms, and the fastest DDR5 SODIMMs I've seen so far are 5600MT/s: 12.5% slower, assuming equal bus width (only true for the base M1/2 processors).

3%, 12% Potato, potato. It’s a small spec performance difference for a huge price difference.

Meanwhile, for actual real-world workloads, not spilling to swap (because you have enough memory) will result in real-world performance that is many times (even an order of magnitude) better. Even with Apples blazing fast SSDs.

Oh, and you can also spec a cheaper SSD because you don’t need one that can take a bajillion writes (because you aren’t treating your SSD as memory). AND the cheaper SSD will last longer too.

In short, Apple could spec cheaper components AND get better real world performance by simply shipping computers that have enough memory.

Edit: also 3% comes from shipping the absolute fasted DDR5 modules vs the second fasted DDR5.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#360

Post by labcomputer »

sliken wrote: post #291
labcomputer wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I would, and I dare say most people are the same, prefer to have the option for 3% lower memory bandwidth in exchange for 4x more memory. There’s no justification for Apple’s memory prices.

3%? M2 = 100GB/sec M2 pro = 200GB/sec M2 max = 400GB/sec M1 Extreme = 800GB/sec. Most x86-64 laptops and desktops are in the 60-80GB/sec range. Some desktop or server only chip (threadripper, epyc, Xeons, a few intel workstation chips) have 150 or 300GB/sec. 400GB/sec vs 80GB/sec is quite a bit more than 3%, and is available in the mbp 14" or mbp 16".

That’s because Apple Silicon has a stupid-wide memory bus. It has little/nothing to do with the characteristics of the memory chips shipped in the box. They just put more modules in parallel than on x86.

Apple could ship cheaper memory modules with the same stupid-wide bus and achieve nearly the same performance for a fraction of the cost.

And that’s what I want. Give me 4x as much DDR4 on the same 1024 bit wide bus, and I’d be happy.

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