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Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

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Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#71

Post by jillesvangurp »

client4 wrote: post #14

I'd be interested in a Mac once Linux is viable on it. OSX feels outright hostile to power users at this point.

Apple hardware has a lot more capability than their software allows you to use. If Apple was interested in growing their market share further, there are a lot of gains are to be had in supporting non Apple software platforms on Apple hardware. Linux is an obvious one because of Asahi Linux. They've done a lot of the hard work already despite Apple not lifting a finger. Imagine how well that could work with a little Apple support. Even just unofficially. Share a bit of documentation, toss in a few developer resources, etc. Not that hard.

Making sure their CPU/GPUs work perfectly with e.g. Steam and making sure that game studios are able to target Apple hardware would make a lot of difference for their appeal to gamers. Steam, of course, is also starting to work in Asahi Linux as well. There is really no good technical reason why that couldn't work on Mac OS natively.

Of course the same reason that this is a good idea also means Apple won't do it because they seem to prefer controlling their software ecosystem at the cost of failing to grow it. So Metal is nice but completely useless for gaming, or indeed most consumer focused use cases involving 3D (except for the Apple sanctioned ones). OpenCL/OpenGL barely work at this point. Forget about vulkan or directx. The whole AR/VR thing is perpetually not happening at all on Apple hardware. Until such time that they choose to release some Apple branded hardware for this of course. They are also not really investing in making their AI optimized hardware work for mainstream AI developers. Etc.

Anyway, Apple could make a really nice gaming focused console based on e.g. the mac mini. Not that hard. It would not require a lot of changes. Basically beef up the Apple TV UI, make sure games actually can be ported to it, and job done. Not that hard. But as long as their OS is locked down and developer hostile, none of that will happen.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#72

Post by illiarian »

senttoschool wrote: post #66
illiarian wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

* An Apple executive said recently that they want to release a huge upgrade every year. They don't want to hold back.[0] * M1 used A14. M2 used A15 (even though A16 was already out). This seems to suggest that Apple wants to make use of every A series iteration. The A series gets a new gen every year. * It seems to make sense business-wise that the base M will at least get upgraded once a year. It isn't too much more…

> they want to release a huge upgrade every year.

For any other company the YoY upgrades to M-series would be headline-grabbing news and unprecedented achievements.

> It seems to make sense business-wise that the base M will at least get upgraded once a year.

M-series is updated literally every year.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#73

Post by quickthrower2 »

teh_klev wrote: post #69
quickthrower2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use iPhones for the “cuz it just works” factor, and with those M chips, I am tempted to make the switch from Windows PCs These days laptop PCs are unreliable across most brands I have tried and supplied with crapware and the operating system is hostile and forces stuff like OneDrive on you and begs you not to install Chrome. Last 2 years over 2 devices: Broken screen (not due to external) Touchscreen not working Li…

Which devices gave you such trouble?

Lenovo Flex, Asus Vivobook, Dell XPS13

Desktops are a different breed. They last forever.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#74

Post by lonelyasacloud »

Is what eventually happens when the platform (macOS) does doesn't have enough features being added to it that benefit from improved hardware for the majority of its users.

Could argue that's because macOS is being neglected as it's slowly being replaced with iPadOS. Could argue it's just what happens with converging to an optimum. Either way outside of video editing - and perhaps AI dev - upgrading from last gen pro Intel and m1 doesn't feel very compelling at the moment.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#75

Post by soneil »

illiarian wrote: post #64
jpeter wrote: post #7

Their EU pricing is just insane

I've always joked that if you want a maxed-out model, it's cheaper to fly to the States, buy there, and fly back than to buy in Europe (especially in Sweden where I am right now)

That's almost entirely Sweden having a high tax rate though.

I just priced out an M2 MBA with ram & ssd maxed out. $2499 USD in the US and 33009kr in Sweden. $2499 is 26163kr, +25% VAT is 32705kr. So you're paying 304kr / $29 more than the US price.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#76

Post by qumpis »

threeseed wrote: post #57
fabian2k wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just looked at it, and it certainly is. I mean Apple was always more expensive, but the difference is just huge now. For me 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD is kind of the minimum (I would buy 32GB RAM if I can get it for a fair price). I can get that for less than 1000 EUR as a Windows/Linux notebook with reasonably good quality. For Apple it seems to start at 2300 EUR with these specs, and that is for relatively small screen s…

> I can get that for less than 1000 EUR Please by all means provide a link. Often when you see these sort of comparisons it's low spec screens, memory + SSDs.

Yes, I have no idea why people are comparing apple's excellent hardware to gaming laptops with wobbly hinges and inefficient CPUs that are intended for different purpose altogether.

All tech in Europe is costlier. Check Dell 2023 XPS lineup and compare to macbooks - it won't get come out cheaper.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#77

Post by andyjohnson0 »

marcinzm wrote: post #41
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #18

How many people actually need the perf of an M1 or M2-based laptop? I see a lot of excited stuff about running ML models on Apple silicon, but not much about how it benefits ordinary tech users running compile workloads or whatever, and nothing at all about people running standard applications. The hardware is great, I'm just not convinced that the price/performance delivers a big enough market.

The battery life is really nice even if you don’t need the full power.

Good point. Having cpu cores that are optimised for efficiency is a nuce feature.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#78

Post by adriancr »

threeseed wrote: post #57
fabian2k wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just looked at it, and it certainly is. I mean Apple was always more expensive, but the difference is just huge now. For me 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD is kind of the minimum (I would buy 32GB RAM if I can get it for a fair price). I can get that for less than 1000 EUR as a Windows/Linux notebook with reasonably good quality. For Apple it seems to start at 2300 EUR with these specs, and that is for relatively small screen s…

> I can get that for less than 1000 EUR Please by all means provide a link. Often when you see these sort of comparisons it's low spec screens, memory + SSDs.

Here's one under 1000e: https://www.coolblue.nl/en/product/917297/asus-zenbook-14-um...

If you spend 1250e you can get oled screens which are nicer then apple

https://www.coolblue.nl/en/product/904043/asus-zenbook-14-um...

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#79

Post by belltaco »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #63
reacharavindh wrote: post #5

I think Apple being as big, and making the big technological leap with M1 convinced a lot of customers to buy the new Macs. Even those that technically weren’t needing one/upgrade. Now, that curiosity bubble has saturated with the M2 being an iterative improvement and the customer base certainly not as desperate (intel to M1). Given enough time, I think the Macs will continue to gain market share. Most tech companies…

I use iPhones for the “cuz it just works” factor, and with those M chips, I am tempted to make the switch from Windows PCs These days laptop PCs are unreliable across most brands I have tried and supplied with crapware and the operating system is hostile and forces stuff like OneDrive on you and begs you not to install Chrome. Last 2 years over 2 devices: Broken screen (not due to external) Touchscreen not working Li…

> These days laptop PCs are unreliable across most brands I have tried and supplied with crapware and the operating system is hostile and forces stuff like OneDrive on you and begs you not to install Chrome.

That is true but Apple's OneDrive equivalent thing iCloud is the same way, they even show fake red notifications on program icons to make you sign into iCloud and use dark patterns to make you use iCloud. They don't push Safari as much but they've been stagnating it on purpose across all their products to protect their App Store revenue, which is quite the turn off.

Apple's hardware can also have problems as evidenced on here and forums but overall might be better than a cheaper laptop, just like PC laptops. Anyway my two biggest reasons for not going with a MacBook were that I think a touchscreen should be a mandatory as an option in 2023(at least for tapping on links etc. if not multitouch) and being able to play specific FPS titles in a pinch(like in a hotel while traveling) which are not available on the Mac. I was able to get an OLED HDR touchscreen running at 120hz which is gorgeous.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#80

Post by whitehexagon »

jpeter wrote: post #7

Their EU pricing is just insane

I've avoided M series for this reason, and the more proprietary/locked down design... but also it seems like all we do with these upgrades is encourage more software bloat, especially on the browser side.

Environmentally I also dont like the push for minor increments every year across their range of products, and then forced 'obsolete' rating for perfectly working devices. I have a box full already thanks. I hope to use my current machine until it physically breaks, and then switch to open-hardware.

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