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Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

economist.com

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Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#281

Post by iso1631 »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #276
petertodd wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever seen the belligerents list in the first Gulf War? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War It was basically the entire world against Iraq. Even countries like Afghanistan and Sierra Leone contributed to the coalition forces against Iraq, because invading your neighbors to steal resources is frowned upon by essentially everyone. The only reason this hasn't happened again with Russia is because Russia has nukes to t…

We are talking about different things. The political/military support for the invasion in Irak from various governments was so limited, and also criticized domestically, that it became a meme ("You forgot Poland"). Now, as for the people themselves, there were huge protests against the war in Iraq in Europe and even greater against the war in Afghanistan, with literally millions marching in some European cities - it…

You're talking the second Iraq war in 2003, not the response to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990

The 1990 invasion was condemned by the US and Soviet Union

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#282

Post by esarbe »

chupasaurus wrote: post #103
esarbe wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Russia just popped into existence in 1547. It doesn't have anything to do with the peoples that lived in that region before that. Russia as a whole was brought to earth by aliens.

You see, Kievan Rus equals Russia is the thing I've heard only from Russian officials. After the Mongol invasion different parts had very different paths in history.

Yes, and the people in the domain of the Czardom of Russia never recovered. One could make a point that the independence of the Cossack tribes contributed its share to the "de-imperialization" of the Dniepr region. A benefit the peoples in the Duchy of Moscow and later the Czardom of Russia never had.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#283

Post by petertodd »

iso1631 wrote: post #281
hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are talking about different things. The political/military support for the invasion in Irak from various governments was so limited, and also criticized domestically, that it became a meme ("You forgot Poland"). Now, as for the people themselves, there were huge protests against the war in Iraq in Europe and even greater against the war in Afghanistan, with literally millions marching in some European cities - it…

You're talking the second Iraq war in 2003, not the response to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990 The 1990 invasion was condemned by the US and Soviet Union

Exactly. They are not the same wars and there's very important differences between them.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#284

Post by [deleted] »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #276
petertodd wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever seen the belligerents list in the first Gulf War? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War It was basically the entire world against Iraq. Even countries like Afghanistan and Sierra Leone contributed to the coalition forces against Iraq, because invading your neighbors to steal resources is frowned upon by essentially everyone. The only reason this hasn't happened again with Russia is because Russia has nukes to t…

We are talking about different things. The political/military support for the invasion in Irak from various governments was so limited, and also criticized domestically, that it became a meme ("You forgot Poland"). Now, as for the people themselves, there were huge protests against the war in Iraq in Europe and even greater against the war in Afghanistan, with literally millions marching in some European cities - it…

[deleted]

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#285

Post by _djo_ »

mistermann wrote: post #186
wyldfire wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or can that be filed under "whatabaoutism" and ignored? One does not imply the other. It can be "whataboutism" in that it doesn't respond to the Russian topic in this thread. And we needn't ignore it. Write an article about the misdeeds of the Western governments and we'll discuss them in that thread. But US war crimes and bombings don't excuse Russia's current invasion of Ukraine.

Is it not true though that we seem to get much more upset when Russia does things wrong then when we do things wrong? Like, if we were to look at the body count of our respective militaries over the last 20 years the US military is clearly dominant in that regard, yet the outrage over Russia seems disproportional to the harm...is there not a lot of truth here that people seem less enthusiastic to discuss in the aggre…

Nope.

The US invaded Afghanistan with pretty much full international support and the authorisation of a UNSC resolution.

The invasion of Iraq was far more murky, and nearly split the alliance between the US, UK, France, and Germany as a result. It also caused serious consequences to US power. But it wasn’t a reshaping of the world map, did not include annexation, and was rapidly regularised by UNSC resolutions because of the US’s commitment to allowing an independent government to be formed as well as elections it would not control.

Most importantly though, the US-led coalition had the faintest cover of legal plausible deniability in UNSC 1441, which could be read as having authorised force because of Iraq’s ongoing noncompliance. I disagree with that interpretation, but it has never been fully settled.

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine was explicitly an annexation by force, and lacked even the pretence of any attempted justification under international law. Putin has also in speeches strongly implied that Ukraine is merely the first in his ambitions, that Russia had a ‘right’ to all the former frontier countries of both the USSR and the Russian Empire.

Where the invasion of Iraq was a bending of international law and the post-WW2 consensus, Russia’s is a complete break of it, and a statement that sovereignty of smaller countries as protected by international law doesn’t matter at all. That’s why it’s treated differently.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#286

Post by orwin »

foverzar wrote: post #222

Ow wow, I expected this one would become like "FSB arrests children for blowing up buildings in Minecraft" as soon as the first details had started to surface, but never would have guessed it would hit HN. PsyOps is strong, I see a few other people here bringing them up and getting mass downvoted.

This one is on Russia telegram groups too, I don't think it's false (the details aren't the same, but the story is basically 'parent indoctrinated children should be given back to Russia' if Google translate is right)

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#287

Post by jnsaff2 »

foverzar wrote: post #259
jnsaff2 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They kept their dignity and earned mad respect from others. They may also win at some point.

> mad respect I really hope that you are being ironic and this is a joke.

Why would you hope such a thing?

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#288

Post by arvigeus »

robswc wrote: post #126

Nothing new. Family from Eastern Europe had to deal with this bs with communism. It was always the fear of neighbors “ratting you out” made everyone paranoid. You had to be on board or risked being “taken away.”

Not just “rattling out”, often you had a quota as well.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#289

Post by medo-bear »

pfisherman wrote: post #213
medo-bear wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We fought a very bloody civil war to get rid of slavery, and black people/women have had the right to vote for some time is that what gets taught in american schools these days? i wonder how the black and natives feel > Putin by contrast is a return to a 19th century Tsardom in everything but name what does tsardom mean? if anything putinism is a caricature of the russian government in Red Alert 2. by that i mean a…

Better to be black in America than Russian in Russia. We got our problems over here, but at least we aren’t being conscripted and thrown into the meat grinder of a pointless war.

> Better to be black in America than Russian in Russia

you really think that russians are scared of police when they walk down the road? i mean im not surprised. this is a very common misconception about how societies in e. europe work

> but at least we aren’t being conscripted and thrown into the meat grinder of a pointless war

given how brave people seem to be online i dare say, "not yet"

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#290

Post by red-iron-pine »

fauxpause_ wrote: post #24

Wagner leader Prigozhin made a statement against this one as part of his internal politics war. So in case people are questioning whether this is just western propaganda, no, it appears to be the same story running around domestically, with many ultra nationalists supporting it.

source me plz
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