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Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

economist.com

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Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#101

Post by livinginfear »

tokai wrote: post #75
livinginfear wrote: post #69

[flagged]

Try following along instead of wrongly claiming scepticism towards something that is well documented.

Are you suggesting that I start blindly taking the mainstream media's reporting about war at good faith? Aren't there enough historic examples of how the American media establishment have been used to further American foreign policy objectives?

I've always thought of myself as left-wing. I came of age in the 'War on Terror', and recall the collective skepticism of the American establishment. I remember the attitude of left-wing intellectuals like Chomsky, and the public reaction to what many other young people like myself thought was a war fought not for justice, but for American foreign policy interests. I don't see this kind of skepticism anymore.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#102

Post by TechBro8615 »

causi wrote: post #99
TechBro8615 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a crime in itself to say "Glory to ISIS!" but if you say it publicly, it will put you on the radar of law enforcement agencies like the FBI who will entrap you and then use your "Glory to ISIS!" post as evidence when they charge you with providing material support to terrorists. You can find plenty of indictment PDFs on justice.gov that reference "social media posts in support of ISIS."

You can find plenty of indictment PDFs on justice.gov that reference "social media posts in support of ISIS." Are there any that only reference social media posts in support of ISIS? You could use them as supporting evidence of a crime but they are not a crime in and of themselves.

Sorry, I edited my post while you were replying and clarified that (and then edited it again to restore the quote you were replying to, lol). It's not a crime in itself, but it puts you on the radar to be entrapped and later charged with a crime.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#103

Post by chupasaurus »

esarbe wrote: post #79
chupasaurus wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Russia happened 200 years or so later.

Sure. Russia just popped into existence in 1547. It doesn't have anything to do with the peoples that lived in that region before that. Russia as a whole was brought to earth by aliens.

You see, Kievan Rus equals Russia is the thing I've heard only from Russian officials. After the Mongol invasion different parts had very different paths in history.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#104

Post by dcow »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #54
jimbob45 wrote: post #5

Any Russians on here to explain why dissenters wouldn’t work on leaving the country rather than token demonstrations like this?

I'm an immigrant that legally migrated into Schengen from outside Schengen. I currently have a temporary residence permit. I don't come from a country basically at war with NATO, I have a job, I earn good money, I contribute to society, I follow the laws, and still this is the most difficult thing I have ever done in my whole life, and it is not particularly close. It is expensive, it is time consuming, it is life co…

Well this explains the situation exactly. People are oppressed into being hopeless. How Russian that seems.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#105

Post by ck2 »

Go on, tell me this doesn't have a nuclear weapon used to "salt" Ukraine crops when he's on his final deathbed.

There are no checks and balances, everyone is just going to do what they are told and that will be the end of that.

The surge in the price of all wheat products in the US is in part due to Ukraine crops being unavailable, they are important to the entire world.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#106

Post by avgcorrection »

piva00 wrote: post #20
avgcorrection wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a curt reply to a seemingly complex issue.

Pretty usual for this topic, it happens here on HN, on reddit and probably any place with discussions on the internet. It seems there's a cohort of people that actively disengage from any news about Russia during this war of aggression using the "propaganda" cop-out, if you press them on why there will be all sorts of justifications of not believing in mainstream media, etc., the usual post-truth bullshit.

To be honest I have a similar attitude in that I don’t engage much with those kinds of news. But that also means that I can’t just blurt out (or indirectly claim) that something is a propagandistic falsehood. Because I don’t know.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#107

Post by andsoitis »

livinginfear wrote: post #69

[flagged]

This article is from the Economist, a British publication, not a US administration.

The related activity, i.e. abduction and separation of Ukrainian children from their parents, is very well documented and I don't see a reason to doubt it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russia...

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#108

Post by esarbe »

xpe wrote: post #60
esarbe wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I think the Mongols broke Russia to the yoke of Empire.

Can you say more? Can you think of similar examples where history seems to go the other way?

On prominent ancient example that pops into my head right away is Mesopotamia. The Assyrians were famous for their brutality and their depiction of violence as political propaganda. They were despised for their viciousness.

It has been argued that the later Persians and Medes were able to rule with a softer touch because by that time the peoples of Mesopotamia had been "broken into the yoke" - e.g. their local decision making traditions forgotten, decentralized civic structures abandoned.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#109

Post by causi »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #102
causi wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can find plenty of indictment PDFs on justice.gov that reference "social media posts in support of ISIS." Are there any that only reference social media posts in support of ISIS? You could use them as supporting evidence of a crime but they are not a crime in and of themselves.

Sorry, I edited my post while you were replying and clarified that (and then edited it again to restore the quote you were replying to, lol). It's not a crime in itself, but it puts you on the radar to be entrapped and later charged with a crime.

Sure, but the grandparent said "You'd be arrested in the UK/US if your child wrote glory to isis". That's the only point I'm rebutting.

Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children

#110

Post by 5e92cb50239222b »

jevgeni wrote: post #86
5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish this got more attention (but I guess Russian citizens receive zero sympathy these days, their political position notwithstanding). Maybe then we would see less of this tiresome bullshit from keyboard warriors from around the globe who blame ordinary citizens for being unwilling to throw themselves unarmed against a neo-Stalinist dictatorship that the West has supported for more than two decades. The EU…

First and foremost it was the russians who supported their government. russians were silent during Chechnya, during the Yukos case, after Putin's comments on Kursk widows, after killing of Politkovskaya, Nemtsov, and so on and so on. Look at any russian popular media in early 2000s and you will see a huge amount of really casual racism, with "Brat 2" being the pinnacle. Nobody spoke out against it. Just because they…

I am not going to engage with someone who is so bent on his hatred that he's is willing to subvert the rules of the English grammar to show it, but let it be noted that it has been impossible to protest in Russia since around 2004 or so. None of what you're describing stopped the West from pouring insane amounts of money into Putin's military and repression apparatus. Oh, the irony. My relatives over there had it really difficult since the collapse of the USSR and life came out of pure survival mode closer to maybe 2010. I can't blame them for having other things on their mind, but I know you won't care.
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