Is a family in the US that publicly supports Al Qaeda or ISIS not being threatened with the same?
No, and even if they were, that wouldn't make taking people's children away from them as punishment for thought crimes a reasonable policy.
Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
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Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#62Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#63Any Russians on here to explain why dissenters wouldn’t work on leaving the country rather than token demonstrations like this?
Because they are poor people not speaking any foreign languages (Russian language education system is intentionally terrible), with no marketable skills relevant outside of Russia. They are both victims of the system and it's products, unalienable from the system itself.
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm pretty sure the problem is a circle of oligarchs, cronies, and ex-KGB turning the government into a sadistic mob state, and their citizens poor as hell.
This seems pretty similar to descriptions of Russia in 1918 as well. What's up with this place? Maybe it's the cultural influence of the Mongol invasion?
>Maybe it's the cultural influence of the Mongol invasion?
What exactly are you suggesting?
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
Russia -> some people in Russia
When apartheid South Africa was a pariah state the world held the voting population of South Africa accountable as a collective, rather than just pretending it was only the elite in government making all choices. Although the system was corrupt and hardly a full free and fair election even within the limited racial franchise the country was allowed, the white voting public and corporate and civil society elite had mo…
By that logic Israel should have full sanctions applied to it based on their treatment of the Palestinians. Instead the west is supporting the continued operation of a full open air prison with which it is near impossible to escape and that people are born and die in. There is plenty of hypocrisy to go around in the West. There are no major reforms coming either. Instead the west is doubling down by imposing laws to even prevent the criticism of Israel by way of punishment.
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Leaving the country is not easy.. you just need one grandmother that needs care and you're stuck
Also, most european countries don't allow russian¹² refugees anymore, and traveling by plane into western countries is impossible for (non-oligarch-level-wealthy) russians. ¹ germany: https://www.proasyl.de/en/news/germany-federal-office-for-mi... ² finland: https://thebarentsobserver.com/ru/node/189
That's very inaccurate. The German case states that the possibility to be drafted alone doesn't constitute grounds for asylum, you need some form individual persecution (because of ethnicity, gender, sexuality, religion etc) in Germany. "I got charged because my daughter drew a picture that called for peace" will be a very different case than "I'd rather not fight personally".
It's not new either, it has pretty much always been that way. A lot of German politicians are calling for exceptions for Russians (which would effectively end the practice for all countries) to weaken Russia's ability to draft more people.
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
This seems pretty similar to descriptions of Russia in 1918 as well. What's up with this place? Maybe it's the cultural influence of the Mongol invasion?
Yeah, I think the Mongols broke Russia to the yoke of Empire.
Except Russia happened 200 years or so later.
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
This seems pretty similar to descriptions of Russia in 1918 as well. What's up with this place? Maybe it's the cultural influence of the Mongol invasion?
What kind of explanation are you seeking? Are you looking for broad “reasons” why history has unfolded the way it did? What if Russia’s history is not improbable? What if “Western” {democracy + variants of capitalism + colonialism + etc} is actually more of a surprise, probabilistically? Have you read various commentaries that draw associations and even causal links between natural resources and history? For example,…
> What kind of explanation are you seeking?
In this case, I am wondering if a culture other than the present would lead to different outcomes, and specifically wondering if there are significant after-effects of the long-ago Mongol domination. Of course it's near impossible to answer this with any scientific rigor, and I don't have much hope for it :)
It seems that the communist takeover in 1918 was not an obvious "done deal," and at several points things came very close to not happening that way (and going the way of the German social-democratic setup for example).
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#69[flagged]
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Russia -> some people in Russia
Putin has had high approval ratings for years. Not only because they clamped down on any opposition, but also because Russians simply don't care. This is not just a "Putin" problem.
> because Russians simply don’t care
First, this is anything but simple.
Second, many Russians do care, but it is rational to stay quiet.
Third, your comment is one starting point for discussion but certainly not the end. Some follow up questions:
A. What would it take for more Russians to band together to oust Putin? Russians know the brutality of oppression and the long arm of state surveillance.
B. I take your point that this is not just a Putin problem. What happens after?
- The oligarchs have strong incentives to carry on similarly. They get so rich that they can buy loyalty “down the chain”. It becomes an issue of self interest to be corrupt, because it gets you a better quality of life. Sadly, a country with a high quality of life would be less susceptible.
- There will be some kind of selection process post Putin. It is unclear who might have the cunning, blackmail ability, and control of the military and intelligence forces. These levers make popular unrest almost futile.