Is a family in the US that publicly supports Al Qaeda or ISIS not being threatened with the same?
No, and even if they were, that wouldn't make taking people's children away from them as punishment for thought crimes a reasonable policy.
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Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
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Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#82Any Russians on here to explain why dissenters wouldn’t work on leaving the country rather than token demonstrations like this?
About 30% of Russians are against the war (20% don't know, 50% support the war). That's about 40 million people that would have to leave the country. Only 30% of Russians have travel passports, and most of them used them to travel to Ukraine, Kazakhstan and other ex-Soviet countries to visit their relatives.
Those numbers are pulled right out of someone's ass. No-one really knows how many citizens are for and against the war (there were some hints that the Kremlin did several unofficial polls and really didn't like their results, but nothing supported by good evidence).
Also, you don't need a travel passport to visit relatives in ECU (which Kazakhstan is a member of), and it's pretty much impossible to visit Ukraine legally regardless of whether you have a passport or not.
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
When apartheid South Africa was a pariah state the world held the voting population of South Africa accountable as a collective, rather than just pretending it was only the elite in government making all choices. Although the system was corrupt and hardly a full free and fair election even within the limited racial franchise the country was allowed, the white voting public and corporate and civil society elite had mo…
Should the same apply to Western governments and their people? Should every American be held responsible for all the US war crimes and bombings in the Middle East, Africa etc? Or can that be filed under "whatabaoutism" and ignored?
Yes, and we do. People absolutely blame Western populations for the governments they choose to elect, and act accordingly. How is this surprising?
Should every American be held responsible for all the US war crimes and bombings
This is a straw man. Nobody said every single Russian, or American, or Brit should be held solely and individually responsible, but that the population collectively should be.
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#84The same is happening in Texas, where your kid can be taken away without trial if someone reports that they may be trans.
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Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#85[flagged]
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#86To an observer not closely following the extraordinary cycle of internal repressions taking place in Russia following its invasion of Ukraine - the news coming out of there, such as this one - may appear sensationalized. Surely this level of judicial evil is overstated! It’s not. The show trials over alleged enemies of the state reminiscent of Stalin are becoming routine. Regular people receiving sentences of 7 years…
I really wish this got more attention (but I guess Russian citizens receive zero sympathy these days, their political position notwithstanding). Maybe then we would see less of this tiresome bullshit from keyboard warriors from around the globe who blame ordinary citizens for being unwilling to throw themselves unarmed against a neo-Stalinist dictatorship that the West has supported for more than two decades. The EU…
First and foremost it was the russians who supported their government.
russians were silent during Chechnya, during the Yukos case, after Putin's comments on Kursk widows, after killing of Politkovskaya, Nemtsov, and so on and so on. Look at any russian popular media in early 2000s and you will see a huge amount of really casual racism, with "Brat 2" being the pinnacle. Nobody spoke out against it.
Just because they let it fester for so long that now they can't even protest is still on them.
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#87Any Russians on here to explain why dissenters wouldn’t work on leaving the country rather than token demonstrations like this?
I’m not Russian but have some experience with moving around with a (once)weak passport: You can’t just go wherever you like.
You are not welcome and they won’t let you come if they suspect you might stay. Some conspire to send you to Rwanda, some beat you up on the border, others lock you up in concentration camps.
You are also the boogyman for about %20-%50 of the population of the country you go and about that many politicians promise to get rid of you if they get elected.
One day you are on the bus and feel tired, a seat frees up and you snap it. You look around and see hateful stares directed at you.
For many many years you can’t function like a normal person. You can’t have a normal job, you can’t start a business, you can’t rent, you can’t subscribe to utilities and you need to find people who will help you out with all this all the time.
Some places will be more helpful than others but will make you feel your boundaries all the time and they will get rid of you at your first mistake.
Also, remember how you are active citizen protesting against war in your own country? You can’t protest in your new country, you are expected to be cooperating %100 of the time with whatever the locals do. Moving to another country, means you completely give up your aspirations of influencing the society.
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, and even if they were, that wouldn't make taking people's children away from them as punishment for thought crimes a reasonable policy.
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Listen you're not going to convince me that removing the children from anyone who disagrees with the party line is good policy, no matter where it happens, although I appreciate your apparent enthusiasm for it.
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#89[flagged]
Perhaps in the UK, but writing "Glory to ISIS" is perfectly legal in the US.
It's not a crime in itself to say "Glory to ISIS!" but if you say it publicly, it will put you on the radar of law enforcement agencies like the FBI who will entrap you and then use your "Glory to ISIS!" post as evidence when they charge you with providing material support to terrorists.
You can find plenty of indictment PDFs on justice.gov that reference "social media posts in support of ISIS."
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#90It will continue for as long as it will take the world to realise that problem with Russia, is Russia itself, and it needs to be comprehensively fixed.
The barrier to outsiders invading and fixing it is nuclear weapons. If the west's troops invaded Russian, it's quite possible Russia would launch nukes. Even without that, the West doesn't want to put boots on the ground in Russia, fearing it will end up like Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc. The barrier to Russians forming a coup is state repression. The FSB is good at routing out any coup before it can get far. Unless the…
It only depends on political will. Airtight isolation will be enough to solve Russia, let's say. On the level that "whoever has any diplomatic or trade relationship with Russia or does not accept the same policy, can't trade with anyone in the West", this policy will take days to "infect" entire world. Not being able to trade they will quickly descend to starvation, rampant disease and death. Then we can take refugees.
Also, well, if we were serious about it, we could throw in enough resources to defeat them like we did it with Soviet Union. Except not recognise any successor states this time: everyone out, with hands up, and that's it.