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Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

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Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#451

Post by bumby »

cmui wrote: post #387
potatolicious wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about labor? I'm pretty handy but there are definitely parts of my HVAC system where I'd be unable/unwilling to DIY it. I currently have a local HVAC contractor on-retainer for same-day emergency appointments - and honestly I don't think I'd be willing to consider anything less since my current heat pump is my exclusive source of heating in this house. I'm in a temperate climate so there's little actual danger,…

Yeah, good question. The system is not meant to be DIY. The same contractor that does install also offers service. Logistics for replacement parts is important we will have quick, easy access for contractors.

Have you worked on creating a network of qualified contractors? In my region, there are lots of contractors who are little more than unreliable DIYers, especially in the mechanical space.

My hesitancy is in the ongoing service. I’ve looked into geo-coupled heat pumps but the lack of qualified contractors locally deterred me.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#452

Post by cmui »

briHass wrote: post #333
earleybird wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely this. 3-4x? Sibling of mine just had a minisplit installed where the unit was probably $4-$5k and the total was north of $24k. A sealed water loop where any plumber and most DIYers could manage would be miles ahead in both reliability and accessibility.

Good point; I forgot to mention the reliability/environmental aspect as well. Most DIY, and even pro installs, of mini splits fail due to leaking flare connections, which must be made in the field. Modern refrigerants operate at very high (400+ PSI) pressures, and getting a perfect seal is critical. Having the entire refidgerant loop sealed and tested at the factory significantly decrease the common issues and preven…

Though somewhat controversial, ZoomLock also seems promising. Agreed though, there are obvious benefits to having a fully factory sealed refrigerant loop.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#453

Post by alex_dev »

joelfried wrote: post #243
cmui wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This behavior is how current variable speed heat pumps operate with Ecobee and Nest. You leave efficiency on the table, but I get it provides some future proofing assurance for homeowners. Definitely something we can integrate into the board.

> I get it provides some future proofing assurance I don't think you're getting it, and a lot of us around here want you to. If I were actively researching heat pumps (a thing most homeowners do before dropping 4-5 figures on ANY hardware), if you are locking me into your ecosystem -- or even have the appearance of locking me into your ecosystem -- your product is not getting onto any short list from me or likely any…

Agreed. As someone in the market for a good heat pump, I'm already turned off by this offering. I don't want more features (air quality module) that are more points of failure and complexity. I just want an efficient heat pump that'll work reliably for a long time, integrate well with HA, and won't cost a kidney to install.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#454

Post by solived »

Good on ya! This is a huge challenge, but sorely needed in the industry. How are you going about designing these systems? Do you have ducted options? HEPA filtration is not an end-all to indoor air quality, is there any consideration for ventilation?

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#455

Post by ttul »

Max-q wrote: post #448

In Norway most homes have one or more heat pumps. We are living in a cold climate and the pumps are being used like 9-10 months a year. The most common brands are Japanese: Toshiba, Mitsubishi and Panasonic. I will not agree that the user experience is bad at all. They are very good products. Stand alone they work well and with integration they work together with the power company to optimize the energy consumption v…

They are UGLY though...

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#456

Post by joezydeco »

cmui wrote: post #352
joezydeco wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where will you be building these? I think in this case it makes sense to sell units, and also generate feedback about the product as early as possible So you're going to use end customers as your test base? That's pretty gutsy. Especially when they're shelling out $10K and ripping out their existing (and working ) HVAC system to do this. Don't use the car analogy here, there's no backup if it doesn't work. Unless you…

Definitely agree that a good customer experience is key here. We're not shipping half baked hardware to end customers. That's what engineering development (alpha build, design validation build, production validation build, home pilot) is for. After all that happens, then customers can an install (and one that's well designed and tested).

I guess your definition of "feedback" is different than mine. Maybe that's a Tesla thing.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#457

Post by hd95489 »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #63

I keep reading lots of horror stories about heat pumps. People are complaining about all of the following: - Enormous energy bills because under some conditions (cold weather?) heat pumps use a lot more energy than expected. - Heat pump equipment and radiators taking too much space in small homes. - Cold homes and/or a requirement to keep windows shut because heat pumps just don't generate enough heat. - Only suitabl…

They aren’t a drop in replacement. Heat pumps need large ducts or you won’t have enough flow because the air in the ducts is not that much hotter than outside air. Delta t is low

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#458

Post by throwway120385 »

Let me know when I can buy one to install under my house in the crawl space. My house was built in the 30s before forced air was available and the ductwork is a retrofit because the crawl is almost big enough that I can stand up in it. We currently have a giant Rheem gas furnace and I'd love to replace it with an electric since they're no longer up to code as of this year.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#459

Post by cmui »

solived wrote: post #454

Good on ya! This is a huge challenge, but sorely needed in the industry. How are you going about designing these systems? Do you have ducted options? HEPA filtration is not an end-all to indoor air quality, is there any consideration for ventilation?

We are primarily targeting ducted options. For us, air quality means manage particulate (PM2.5), CO2 with fresh air intake, and humidity in the home.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#460

Post by verelo »

Chris, great and i love that you're working on this. We need more heatpumps in this world!

Any chance there's a solution coming for people with hydronic systems? We have a house in rural Ontario that has in-floor hydronic in the basement and hydronic radiators upstairs too. We'd love to get off propane, but there are virtually zero options without us installing ducts (which due to the German wood-frame design is very difficult to achieve without a lot of unfavourable cosmetic alterations)

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