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Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

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Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#151

Post by sosodev »

cmui wrote: post #62
sabareesh wrote: post #38

Typical medium unit at market place is only around 3K compared to your offering at 12k. Why is it so expensive https://www.homedepot.com/p/Pioneer-36-000-BTU-3-Ton-18-SEER...

Fair point, I should do a better job of communicating the unit sizes. Heat pump capacity varies as a function of outdoor temps. A standard unit is rated at 47F but the sizes I'm showing are at 5F (cold climate conditions). Also for this price you get the air quality module which does HEPA, fresh air intake and humidification and a smart thermostat that's designed to fully optimize this heat pump system.

When you say it's rated at 47F do you mean its efficiency is measured at 47F? If so, does that matter much?

The unit linked in the post you're replying to states that it can operate as low as -13F.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#152

Post by izolate »

I live in Buffalo NY, and from the recent record-breaking snowstorms, I've concluded that the push for electrification of home appliances may not be the best solution. Although gas furnaces still require electricity, they can operate for a more extended period on a generator, and gas stoves are a crucial backup option for staying warm during a power outage. Until our electricity grid becomes more reliable, I would hesitate to switch to an all-electric setup.

While I think your product looks excellent and applaud your launch, I regret that it's not something I'd purchase anytime soon, given my concerns about relying solely on electricity during power outages.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#153

Post by pridkett »

startupsfail wrote: post #41
dawnerd wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts too. Local heating/cooling should not be tied to the cloud period. If it doesn't use the normal wiring people already have it's a hard pass from me.

Maybe Europe market is ready for this. Considering how unstable the residential electrical and internet grid is in the US (instead of being dug in, into the ground all the cables are hanging between the trees and there are constant failures), relying on that AND on the cloud for an essential service is a no-go.

I live in a rural part of New England with an electricity company that everyone dislikes because it's super expensive and sometimes things go bad. Since 2010 we've had the following major outages:

* October 2011 Snow Storm - Lost power for 4 days, didn't end up being that cold

* October 2019 Thunderstorms - Lost power for 3 days, thankfully generator kept the house going

* August 2020 Tropical Storm Isaias - Caused widespread grid damage, but only lost power for 18 hours. Internet was out for 36 hours.

* August 2021 Hurricane Henri - Widespread grid damage, lost power for about 6 hours. By this point I had powerwalls. I didn't even turn down the air conditioner.

That's it - every other outage has been a few hours. And that's living in a rural area that is heavily wooded with most of the power lines above ground and often long runs close to trees. If I lived in a suburb or city those times would be even less.

The grid in the United States, despite some widespread and documented regional failures (2021 Texas, 2003 NE Blackout), is remarkably resilient.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#154

Post by 8ytecoder »

cmui wrote: post #88
daredoes wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would your company be willing to provide an open-source local-first websocket-based integration with https://www.home-assistant.io/ or use the new Matter + Thread standard to provide it for everyone? If that's available, this would be my top choice as I'm actively shopping for all-electric heat pumps

It's something we'd definitely consider. Is the desire to have thermostat control via any third party? edit - The current plan has been Matter/thread Homekit + Google Home integration. We can expose at least temperature control via this to everyone.

I consider Matter support to be vital for any product that’s “connected”. You can keep all the specialised features limited to your app but basic controls should be exposed via a standard protocol like Matter so I can use any Matter controller to set the temperatures and such.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#156

Post by zamnos »

eldaisfish wrote: post #147
londons_explore wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could make an estimate based on the age and size of the house. Build in a profit margin.

This is wishful thinking. the ability of a structure to retain heat depends on SO MANY factors that guaranteeing a temperature is a fool’s errand.

An estimate, not a guarantee, and just bring in a FLIR/thermal camera to see where the heats getting lost and how much. They're cheap enough for professional use these days.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#157

Post by fauigerzigerk »

toast0 wrote: post #121
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #63

I keep reading lots of horror stories about heat pumps. People are complaining about all of the following: - Enormous energy bills because under some conditions (cold weather?) heat pumps use a lot more energy than expected. - Heat pump equipment and radiators taking too much space in small homes. - Cold homes and/or a requirement to keep windows shut because heat pumps just don't generate enough heat. - Only suitabl…

You probably don't hear much from people who are happy with their heat pumps, because it's boring when it just works. But, the competence required for heat pump sizing depends on the local climate. If you need more heat than the outside unit can gather, you're stuck with fallback heat, which is usually resistance strips, which is expensive. Some thermostats will call for the fallback heat anytime the requested temper…

So the fallback heat issue seems fixable by learning how to operate the equipment properly. That's good to know.

Unfortunately, the requirement to keep windows shut and install a ventilation system instead rules out every single place I have ever lived in.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#158

Post by cmui »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #63

I keep reading lots of horror stories about heat pumps. People are complaining about all of the following: - Enormous energy bills because under some conditions (cold weather?) heat pumps use a lot more energy than expected. - Heat pump equipment and radiators taking too much space in small homes. - Cold homes and/or a requirement to keep windows shut because heat pumps just don't generate enough heat. - Only suitabl…

Other replies have great points. A few of my own (1) Proper install is really important, we're building a software tool to make sizing heat pumps and qualifying ducts easier (2) Having a dedicated smart thermostat means that back up heat strip operation is much better than the normal control logic (3) A well installed heat pump system provides a better thermal environment than a furnace because it precisely matches the load of your home instead of cycling on and off. This lets the surfaces in your home soak to a more uniform radiant temp, and radiative exchange is ~50% of your perceived thermal environment at room temperatures.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#159

Post by risyachka »

aaomidi wrote: post #42
z3ugma wrote: post #12

Chris, one of my biggest worries is that your startup will get acquired or go out of business and then the firmware will leave me with a $14,000 brick. What if I want to keep using the cloud-based thermostat when your servers get shut off or moved to another system, or if something like Google Nest closing down their API happens after you've exited? This is an expensive system with an expected long life, and I'd want…

I will not buy this without a fully unlocked everything. This company is going to wait a few years and then charge you a shit ton for subscription to keep using your device. No thanks, and honestly whoever goes with this is going to regret it if they don't make changes to their software. Pick one: - Sell the device - Sell the software If you do both, you're going to alienate your customers and get regulatory wrath on…

That's just not true.

1. 99.99999% will never care about code, open sourcing it etc. All consumers need is to have a guarantee it will work in case company is out of business or there is no internet. It doesn't matter how that guarantee will look like.

2. Sell device OR software is the exact reason most tech is so bad. Doing one of two is 10x easier than doing both, and results are 10x worse. If you do both you actually have a chance to do something nice.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#160

Post by shagie »

lukepighetti wrote: post #140

I'm sniffing an air of "California syndrome" when it comes to HVAC products. The literature says 3-5x more efficient than my existing furnace. I believe that may be true in SF climate. But is it true where I live, in Northern Maine?

They're viable in Maine too.

Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback https://wapo.st/3YK0hbC

From an (opinionated) Youtube channel out of the midwest (Chicago area which isn't known for being warm) - Why Heat Pumps are Immensely Important Right Now https://youtu.be/MFEHFsO-XSI

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