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Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

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Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I oversee multiple teams and have one R&D team that I built. Hired every person. They are all far better coders than I. But I’m the outward face negotiating for resources. And my team using Jira helps me get them resources. I use Jira with them. I’m also pulling tasks across the board. The brutal reality is it’s my reputation that brings in money and resources. I need to effectively estimate what we can do. And Jira…

As someone who is fervently anti-jira, it wouldn't be that hard to make it tolerable. Just make it so that I can't measure page loads with a wall-clock (I've clocked multi-minute loads before) that need 3-7 clicks to get where I need to be. Don't have an abundance of weird subviews that hide half the editable fields I use for another half that I don't. Make the currently active filters clear. So on and so forth, just…

I used to consult on JIRA a while back.

These complaints seem like they have a couple of potential causes.

One very common load time issue is downloading too much data at once, especially on boards. I understand some work has been done to make this better, but you may get some relief by creating new boards with very limited number of issues on it - you want the board's primary filter to be specific (eg a board just for stuff assigned to you, rather than for everything asssigned to your team).

The weird subviews tend to be configurable, and Atlassian has been moving more and more towards defaults (and locking down those defaults) for these configurations that push a specific persona/way of working. I'm sure they have data that supports those choices, and there is strong selection bias going on here, but almost all the consulting I did was trying to figure out how to work around those defaults (the simple ones you can just change!)

Probably, a lot of those issues could be fixed by your administrator - you may even have permission to fix them yourself, though that process can still be quite cumbersome and labyrinthine.

So many complaints about JIRA come down to complaints about how it's configured. Atlassian knows this, and I think they are trying to make it better, but it's a hard problem. I enjoy the endless customisation available as an admin but it takes time and effort to understand what's possible, more time and effort to design those changes, and the most time and effort to make those changes match what the teams need. It's a hard problem to fix.

Sometimes people, frustrated by this big bohemoth, will pick an opinionated tool that matches their way of working. This works great for as long as that tool keeps focused and the needs of the team don't grow.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#122
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developer here. I quite like Jira, I've never seen anything as fleshed out or complete as it is. At a previous startup, I used clubhouse.io, but I seriously missed Jira after a few months. I generally think Atlassian is a really solid company building good products and I really don't get the hatred. I'm also open to acceptable alternatives to Jira and Trello. Edit: ooh, just saw that they also own statuspage. And eve…

>... I really don't get the hatred. The hatred pretty much comes directly from the fact that as developers we are not the customer, just the user. What do developers want? Not to wait for flipping ever on every damn mouse click. To be as fast and minimal as possible. Stay out of the way so I can get work done. What does the customer (the person who selects the product and signs away company $ for it) To "manage" deve…

I believe misery for Atlassian products were mostly self inflicted by companies that insisted on having it on-perm and then not giving a damn about upgrades and not giving a damn about resources to maintain it.

I work with JIRA cloud for 8 years now and while there are hiccups it just works.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if self-hosting is the performance difference. I have worked in projects with 15 years of history in Jira. And they were fine. It feels kind of slow but in reality it takes maybe three seconds to load any ticket. But actual minutes to load stuff? That is insane and I can see where the loathing would come from.

> But actual minutes to load stuff? That is insane and I can see where the loathing would come from. It's also a comment from a random internet person who has an axe to grind and no data to back it up. So take it with a grain of salt. It's amazing how a ten second load time can turn into several minutes when it's software you dislike and you're telling people about it later. ...not saying previous commenter is wrong…

A ten second load time is about 100x worse than it should be.

Exaggerating it to several minutes is less egregious by an order of magnitude.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#124

I’m playing with GitHub projects and while it’s actually showing crazy potential it has the problem of being an intrinsically developer-focused solution to a business problem. Project management software isn’t about getting things done quite as much as it is about showing things getting done to the people who control the resources. Jira is how you get managers to add headcount. That’s the reason managers adopt it. Th…

Classic or V2? Because the latter feels half baked to me.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#125

They should lay off 100% and go out of business. An entire generation of devs has suffered with Atlassian's broken, unscalable tooling. In my entire career I've never met someone who actually likes their products.

Developer here. I quite like Jira, I've never seen anything as fleshed out or complete as it is. At a previous startup, I used clubhouse.io, but I seriously missed Jira after a few months. I generally think Atlassian is a really solid company building good products and I really don't get the hatred. I'm also open to acceptable alternatives to Jira and Trello. Edit: ooh, just saw that they also own statuspage. And eve…

What did you miss about jira when using clubhouse? From the outside it looks like jira with a different color scheme

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#126
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As always you have to remember that the public UI of a SaaS business is rarely telling the whole story about why the headcount is what it is, and without significantly deeper knowledge of everything the business is doing, including future products in development , it's really hard to say if there are too many people or not. Most engineers are not in a business to support the day to day running of an app. They're ther…

That's why I mentioned "incoherent and probably useless other tools". Apparently, they launched some sort of no-code tool for stringing APIs together but still not ready with their GraphQL client. For reference, another company that sells developer tools, JetBrains, has around 2000 employees.

I can't tell where you're driving with the JetBrains comparison. Truthfully, I'm a little surprised they only have 2000 employees.

They have a suite of IDEs supporting a multitude of languages, that are almost universally considered best in class. IDEs are not an easy thing to build. They developed and maintain the Kotlin language which has all but become the standard for Android dev. And they have integrated team collaboration tools that range from project management to CI to cloud dev environments.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#127
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As always you have to remember that the public UI of a SaaS business is rarely telling the whole story about why the headcount is what it is, and without significantly deeper knowledge of everything the business is doing, including future products in development , it's really hard to say if there are too many people or not. Most engineers are not in a business to support the day to day running of an app. They're ther…

That's why I mentioned "incoherent and probably useless other tools". Apparently, they launched some sort of no-code tool for stringing APIs together but still not ready with their GraphQL client. For reference, another company that sells developer tools, JetBrains, has around 2000 employees.

But JetBrains has a whole suite of tools, supporting many plugins, creating their own jvm lang, with support team who actually respond and verify tickets.

Atlassian on the other hand lol.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#128
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

postman, another shit product.

I actually find postman quite useful for the work I do (heavily api-related) - if you work in that space, what other tools would you recommend instead?

I use insomnia after the stunt postman pulled with pricing.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most companies overhired how is it possible for most companies to overhire? where did all those hires come from? maybe facebook doubled by poaching non-faang people, but where did the non-faang companies get all these extra hires from? > a lot of the people who are being laid off never would have had jobs since tech layoffs mostly affect eng, pm's, hr and a bit of management, it seems strange that these mostly well…

Did you not notice the explosion in bootcamps and online programs? Not to mention the huge expansion of existing CS programs. Tens of thousands joined the industry.

Next week I've got a call with an applicant to an open position in our company. He did one of those bootcamps, too, that's all he got as experience. I'm really curious how that will turn out...

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#130
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

postman, another shit product.

I actually find postman quite useful for the work I do (heavily api-related) - if you work in that space, what other tools would you recommend instead?

Honestly? Jupyterlab with python and requests.

It'll do more, with richer libraries, and an obvious path towards automation into CI/CD.

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