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Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

abc.net.au

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Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#81

Post by Nextgrid »

jfoster wrote: post #74
twblalock wrote: post #12

They should lay off 100% and go out of business. An entire generation of devs has suffered with Atlassian's broken, unscalable tooling. In my entire career I've never met someone who actually likes their products.

Believe it or not, about 15 years ago, Atlassian tools were far better than their competitors.

I'm sure they were better. This was before the trend of hiring frontend JS developers and making up busywork to justify their salary and reimplementing worse versions of solved problems.

I remember using Jira in 2017 on a "legacy" project (as opposed to the "next generation project" as they call it). It was fine. I don't mind backend slowness - one second is no big deal in the grand scheme of things. I actually liked Jira (for its features and functionality).

The problem nowadays is that the slowness has been distributed across both the backend and frontend. It's not enough to wait one second for the backend to respond, you now also need to wait for a pile of shit Javascript to load, parse and execute, which has its own subsequent backend requests that themselves take a second to load.

And God forbid you accidentally click anywhere or need to copy text, as now everything is clickable and incurs the same slowness if you need to undo the accidental action.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#82

Post by climb_stealth »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #69
killjoywashere wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I oversee multiple teams and have one R&D team that I built. Hired every person. They are all far better coders than I. But I’m the outward face negotiating for resources. And my team using Jira helps me get them resources. I use Jira with them. I’m also pulling tasks across the board. The brutal reality is it’s my reputation that brings in money and resources. I need to effectively estimate what we can do. And Jira…

As someone who is fervently anti-jira, it wouldn't be that hard to make it tolerable. Just make it so that I can't measure page loads with a wall-clock (I've clocked multi-minute loads before) that need 3-7 clicks to get where I need to be. Don't have an abundance of weird subviews that hide half the editable fields I use for another half that I don't. Make the currently active filters clear. So on and so forth, just…

I wonder if self-hosting is the performance difference. I have worked in projects with 15 years of history in Jira. And they were fine. It feels kind of slow but in reality it takes maybe three seconds to load any ticket.

But actual minutes to load stuff? That is insane and I can see where the loathing would come from.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#83

Post by kodah »

Xeamek wrote: post #54
bzhang255 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They should lay off 100% and go out of business. Suggesting that 9000 people lose their jobs feels like a needlessly hateful way to express a dissatisfaction with a company's products.

Oh stop with the virtue signaling. We are in IT business for God sake. We make crap ton of money, we can work from pretty much anywhere in the world and the market is still undersaturated by a lot. Obviously loosing job always sucks, but this social movement of caring about workers who were let go was meant to be about poor, low skill laborers with no viable alternative in sight, not heckin programmers lmao

> We are in IT business for God sake. We make crap ton of money, we can work from pretty much anywhere in the world and the market is still undersaturated by a lot. Obviously loosing job always sucks, but this social movement of caring about workers who were let go was meant to be about poor, low skill laborers with no viable alternative in sight, not heckin programmers lmao

I don't think all or even most programmers are in a position to just willy nilly dance out of a job and find one the same or better. When I quit my last job it took months of planning. It took 3-5 round difficult interviews with 10 different companies to find the one I wanted to be at. That took a little over three months total.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#84

Post by newswasboring »

harry8 wrote: post #43
nullspace wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developer here. I quite like Jira, I've never seen anything as fleshed out or complete as it is. At a previous startup, I used clubhouse.io, but I seriously missed Jira after a few months. I generally think Atlassian is a really solid company building good products and I really don't get the hatred. I'm also open to acceptable alternatives to Jira and Trello. Edit: ooh, just saw that they also own statuspage. And eve…

>... I really don't get the hatred. The hatred pretty much comes directly from the fact that as developers we are not the customer, just the user. What do developers want? Not to wait for flipping ever on every damn mouse click. To be as fast and minimal as possible. Stay out of the way so I can get work done. What does the customer (the person who selects the product and signs away company $ for it) To "manage" deve…

You've written a lot but I don't see what the actual complaints are. Is it just that it's slow af?

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#85

Post by sverhagen »

andy_ppp wrote: post #79
sverhagen wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fine? Okay, we can quibble about the exact qualification. But I, like many others, am often quite upset about all sorts of stupid inefficiencies of Jira, and, to give a nod to a sibling thread: Bitbucket even more so. Now, you say "fine", I say very mediocre . And the thing with developers and their tooling is that we're often quite spoiled such that this mediocrity just doesn't sit well with us. In a lot of pla…

You never had the pleasure of working on Yahoo!’s extremely customised bugzilla install I’m guessing. Once you used that you’d think Jira was pretty great and well optimised!

I have worked at Sluggish Enterprise™, which I was referencing. I had the luxury of moving on. So, I understand that you can always come across worse, but that doesn't absolve Atlassian, now does it :)

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#86

Post by esperent »

climb_stealth wrote: post #82
AlotOfReading wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is fervently anti-jira, it wouldn't be that hard to make it tolerable. Just make it so that I can't measure page loads with a wall-clock (I've clocked multi-minute loads before) that need 3-7 clicks to get where I need to be. Don't have an abundance of weird subviews that hide half the editable fields I use for another half that I don't. Make the currently active filters clear. So on and so forth, just…

I wonder if self-hosting is the performance difference. I have worked in projects with 15 years of history in Jira. And they were fine. It feels kind of slow but in reality it takes maybe three seconds to load any ticket. But actual minutes to load stuff? That is insane and I can see where the loathing would come from.

> But actual minutes to load stuff? That is insane and I can see where the loathing would come from.

It's also a comment from a random internet person who has an axe to grind and no data to back it up. So take it with a grain of salt.

It's amazing how a ten second load time can turn into several minutes when it's software you dislike and you're telling people about it later.

...not saying previous commenter is wrong either. Just a reminder to be sceptical about all such claims when they're presented without data.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#87

Post by heisenbit »

aato wrote: post #66
killjoywashere wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I oversee multiple teams and have one R&D team that I built. Hired every person. They are all far better coders than I. But I’m the outward face negotiating for resources. And my team using Jira helps me get them resources. I use Jira with them. I’m also pulling tasks across the board. The brutal reality is it’s my reputation that brings in money and resources. I need to effectively estimate what we can do. And Jira…

Can you elaborate on how Jira helps you estimate?

If you have good developer providing honest estimates, no data protection concerns and they diligently provide actuals agile tooling like in Jira can provide great results.

But that all depends on culture. The poster seems to be an engaged manager, pays attention to the data and uses it in a sane way and has hired a group of strong developers.

This is not your average setup…

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#88

Post by darkwater »

Xeamek wrote: post #54
bzhang255 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They should lay off 100% and go out of business. Suggesting that 9000 people lose their jobs feels like a needlessly hateful way to express a dissatisfaction with a company's products.

Oh stop with the virtue signaling. We are in IT business for God sake. We make crap ton of money, we can work from pretty much anywhere in the world and the market is still undersaturated by a lot. Obviously loosing job always sucks, but this social movement of caring about workers who were let go was meant to be about poor, low skill laborers with no viable alternative in sight, not heckin programmers lmao

The virtue signaling in this thread is hating on Jira because everybody (especially in the dev space) does it.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#89

Post by rpmisms »

twelve40 wrote: post #27
noughtme wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you not notice the explosion in bootcamps and online programs? Not to mention the huge expansion of existing CS programs. Tens of thousands joined the industry.

I admit I don't know the industry-wide data for that. I have not encountered a bootcamp person in a professional setting in over 5 years, but maybe im not a part of most companies.

Agencies are completely full of them.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#90

Post by switch007 »

twblalock wrote: post #12

They should lay off 100% and go out of business. An entire generation of devs has suffered with Atlassian's broken, unscalable tooling. In my entire career I've never met someone who actually likes their products.

Using Jira made me miss Azure Devops Boards and that’s saying something
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