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Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

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Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

9000 people who make products that suck should do something else with their lives. Does that mean they will lose their jobs? Yes. It's still the best outcome for the world and those people will get other jobs, hopefully making better products.

I think you’re confusing your opinion with reality, the truth is Jira (I presume this is your real complaint?) is fine and works well enough for most people they can just get on with it.

It's fine?

Okay, we can quibble about the exact qualification. But I, like many others, am often quite upset about all sorts of stupid inefficiencies of Jira, and, to give a nod to a sibling thread: Bitbucket even more so. Now, you say "fine", I say very mediocre. And the thing with developers and their tooling is that we're often quite spoiled such that this mediocrity just doesn't sit well with us. In a lot of places, there is choice such that we can pick the most efficient, non-mediocre tools for our taste. But Jira is just such a de-facto industry standard, that there's less tolerance for shopping around, and many of us get stuck with it.

If you're in a sluggish enterprise, and you're conditioned to sit on the phone for a change request, or wait a minute and a half for your IT website to load, sure, Jira may be a breath of fresh air. But for a lot of us, Jira is the IBM of project management: no one got ever fired for buying it, but few people are happy with it either.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really nice to have an alternative to github. Say what you want about bitbucket, but people have been banned from github for pretty fickle reasons, so it's nice that they can still host repositories somewhere else for free.

I'll say it, it sucks and its slow. The company I started at recently uses it and I hate it so much. Scrolling through a PR, viewing comments in a PR, adding comments in a PR, its all so clunky and GH Actions destroys BB pipelines. It's crap.

I have many a times shouted at my computer over the stupidity that is Bitbucket. And I honestly cannot believe or understand that people at Atlassian are using it themselves. I hate the term dogfooding, but how often do these people have to walk into the same walls that I walk into, before they go and improve a thing?

Sure, I get it, they're working on enterprise features that make them (more) money. But then don't have the audacity to present me an NPS survey to see how incredibly happy I am with their product. Ugh.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re confusing your opinion with reality, the truth is Jira (I presume this is your real complaint?) is fine and works well enough for most people they can just get on with it.

I'm actually okay with Jira. I can't understand why they don't address performance, but I can roll with it because its not that abysmal. I honestly haven't seen something much better out there so it is what it is. It's confluence that I absolutely hate, thats where the performance and generally sad state of the UX gets to me. Bitbucket is even worse, but I had forgotten about its existence until recently because the…

Totally agree. Using their products is just like talking to my grandfather who is already 95 years old.

I had to be very very patient and get ready for repeating something if needed.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#74

They should lay off 100% and go out of business. An entire generation of devs has suffered with Atlassian's broken, unscalable tooling. In my entire career I've never met someone who actually likes their products.

Believe it or not, about 15 years ago, Atlassian tools were far better than their competitors.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, its ui and ux are way ahead of other vcs, however, it lacks deeper dev ops integrations which are the key selling points for github and gitlab.

way ahead of what? not github/lab

Yeah... I can't believe some of the people commenting here. When there's an article about China, and there's comments in defense of the CCP, we suspect trolls. But my experiences with every single Atlassian product are so bad that I can't help myself thinking that there's some sort of troll army at work here from the Atlassian Marketing department.

Or my experiences with Atlassian have just been non-representatively bad.

Or those people work in jobs where the standards are just disappointingly low.

Having read through all the comments, I just don't know anymore.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#76

They should lay off 100% and go out of business. An entire generation of devs has suffered with Atlassian's broken, unscalable tooling. In my entire career I've never met someone who actually likes their products.

I did until they ruined everything. They had good Mercurial hosting, one thing that Github didn't, but then they decided to delete all our repos without a proper export tool either. And they thought we'd just migrate over to Git and stay on their platform? No thanks.

HipChat was good. Then they decided they couldn't compete with Slack so they started rewriting it and then gave up and killed it.

So...they've forcefully booted me off their platform.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#77
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developer here. I quite like Jira, I've never seen anything as fleshed out or complete as it is. At a previous startup, I used clubhouse.io, but I seriously missed Jira after a few months. I generally think Atlassian is a really solid company building good products and I really don't get the hatred. I'm also open to acceptable alternatives to Jira and Trello. Edit: ooh, just saw that they also own statuspage. And eve…

> as fleshed out or complete as it is Their dropdown list doesn't show the currently selected item

Haha, this is the new trend. And hiding scrollbars or making them unusable.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#78
I’m playing with GitHub projects and while it’s actually showing crazy potential it has the problem of being an intrinsically developer-focused solution to a business problem.

Project management software isn’t about getting things done quite as much as it is about showing things getting done to the people who control the resources.

Jira is how you get managers to add headcount. That’s the reason managers adopt it. That and the fact that they don’t need to create an ssh key to use it.

Gitlab also has PjM aspirations but their enterprise, Gitlab-all-the-things model means it’s gonna be a non-starter for most teams.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re confusing your opinion with reality, the truth is Jira (I presume this is your real complaint?) is fine and works well enough for most people they can just get on with it.

It's fine? Okay, we can quibble about the exact qualification. But I, like many others, am often quite upset about all sorts of stupid inefficiencies of Jira, and, to give a nod to a sibling thread: Bitbucket even more so. Now, you say "fine", I say very mediocre . And the thing with developers and their tooling is that we're often quite spoiled such that this mediocrity just doesn't sit well with us. In a lot of pla…

You never had the pleasure of working on Yahoo!’s extremely customised bugzilla install I’m guessing. Once you used that you’d think Jira was pretty great and well optimised!

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#80
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>... I really don't get the hatred. The hatred pretty much comes directly from the fact that as developers we are not the customer, just the user. What do developers want? Not to wait for flipping ever on every damn mouse click. To be as fast and minimal as possible. Stay out of the way so I can get work done. What does the customer (the person who selects the product and signs away company $ for it) To "manage" deve…

I oversee multiple teams and have one R&D team that I built. Hired every person. They are all far better coders than I. But I’m the outward face negotiating for resources. And my team using Jira helps me get them resources. I use Jira with them. I’m also pulling tasks across the board. The brutal reality is it’s my reputation that brings in money and resources. I need to effectively estimate what we can do. And Jira…

Small Jira instances usually aren't a problem. It's the ones with thousands of projects or plugins. It's the way enterprises force developers to use Jira so they can have "visibility". The problem with the visibility those corporations think they have is that it's incomplete. That incompleteness is a mixture of things:

- Jira isn't well integrated to things like GitHub Enterprise or GitLab Enterprise. Instead it tracks on a regex that mars commit history or messages. It's fundamentally disconnected from the VCS workflow.

- Enterprises want to manage visibility by team, but Jira provides few if any tools for managing multiple projects within a single Project. The data structure doesn't map to how many enterprises need to use Jira in order to do reporting.

- Many enterprises rule over definitions of p0 and p1 for anything. Local context gets rolled over by this and Jira just becomes a kind of table splattered with cards.

- Jiras query system is skin deep at best and doesn't support things like querying all issues of a given epic. Much of this is fueled by their plugin API. Do a GET request on any issue and take a look at all the null fields or objects with just pure nonsense in them.

There's probably more to this list, but the point is that Jiras problem is mostly its own doing. ZenHub does a great job of filling these gaps.

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