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Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

theguardian.com

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Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#481

Does anyone notice the irony of it being partly repairable, while offering just three years of security updates, after which you basically have to throw the thing away? The repairability sounds nice, but it is very irrelevant compared to the limited software updates. Imagine buying a Windows laptop and only receiving three years of security updates. (I know, most other phones aren't better.) It would have been better…

Well it's not like desktop OSes are much better, your average LTS Linux distro gets like what, four or five years of updates before they pull the plug?

You continue to get software updates on those devices forever or until the distro ceases to exist.

The lifecycle of a distro release is about how long you can get security updates without feature updates. But when a release goes EOL, you just... have another update, but this time it will include new feature releases of applications and operating system components as well as the usual security fixes.

You also don't really need an LTS for this. In the past I've run installations of Linux for much longer than 5 years on distros that don't do any kind of LTS releases at all.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#483

Why is it so hard to add a removeable back cover to have swappable battery? Seemingly battery replacement can still be done "in 5 minutes" but this still makes pop-out/on the road battery swapping unpractical. https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/nokia-g22

Waterproofing is the main reason. But then thickness and aesthetic "cheapness" is a secondary one. A removeable cover and battery is always going to introduce a little bit of thickness, which on a thin phone is noticeable even if not major. And then whether you have screws or the ridges for removing the cover, it just always feels a little "cheap". You can't get the same kind of rounded smooth glass or aluminum backi…

Look up the Jiayu G5, from around a decade ago. They basically cloned the iPhone 5 and gave it a removable battery with a latching metal back cover.

https://3dnews.ru/assets/external/illustrations/2014/03/25/8...

https://mobi-center.com.ua/image/cache/data/Jiayu-G5S-MTK659...

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a 150 EUR phone, what more do you expect >

I expect lifetime updates. I get that on my real computers: my Linux distribution doesn't suddenly stop updating just because my computer is 3+ years old. Why should phones be any different? You're telling me these trillion dollar corporations can't match the quality of service of Linux distribution maintainers?

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Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People willing to repair their own device is a niche audience as well. If you’re willing to go through the effort of fixing your device, there’s a decent chance you’re willing to flash a custom rom.

Screens yes, battery no. Or at least changing batteries used to be mainstream. Anyone born before the year 2000 should not be at all intimidated by changing a battery. I can't speak for Gen Z, it's possible they've lost that skill.

It's just very expensive. If it becomes affordable they will do it.

I remember having spare batteries for my Motorola, and an external battery charger, because charging via the built in would take ages.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#486

Does anyone notice the irony of it being partly repairable, while offering just three years of security updates, after which you basically have to throw the thing away? The repairability sounds nice, but it is very irrelevant compared to the limited software updates. Imagine buying a Windows laptop and only receiving three years of security updates. (I know, most other phones aren't better.) It would have been better…

Yes, though they can always make it easy to run a custom rom and rely on the community for (security) updates

Android manufacturers pick a LTS kernel when developing their phone. By the time it is on the market, that kernel version only has 3-4 years left of security updates. Custom roms never upgrade the kernel so you are still vulnerable to bugs that were never backported to your kernel

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#487
post #412
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Encrypting" parts also has to do with the black market for iPhones. If you steal someone's iPhone, they can brick it remotely, so you can't just resell it as a whole working device, so you part it out to a shady cell phone repair store who will reuse the parts and give you like fifty bucks so you can score your next bag of drugs. By embedding serial numbers on the parts, Apple stops this and makes the parts unusable…

>driving down the value of a stolen iPhone And driving up the cost of repairs. If I want to turn off the thing that bricks the identification features, there's no technical reason why I shouldn't be able to do that- my device follows my orders, not the other way around.

> And driving up the cost of repairs.

Yes, but Apple provides low-cost replacement parts. Like the cost of an iphone battery via apple store or apple self-service is objectively reasonable, so yeah, you can't use amazon batteries and who cares?

> If I want to turn off the thing that bricks the identification features, there's no technical reason why I shouldn't be able to do that

The reason is because it encourages the resale of stolen goods, which encourages the theft of goods.

"Why shouldn't my dollars do what I tell them to, they're paper in MY wallet" well if what you're telling them to do is buy a hot stereo out of the back of a truck, that's illegal and society is going to discourage that because we don't want our stereo to be stolen next. And stereos are going to be built with things (like serial numbers) that help prevent that. Even if you feel that infringes your privacy (serials are the root of all this tracking after all!) tough shit.

That's always the problem, the people complaining pick out specific elements and whine about that one thing being unfair and ignore that they're specific elements of an overall system that includes elements to compensate the unfair parts.

Yes, iphones will only accept signed parts because that discourages theft, because the phone can't be stripped and sold as parts. And then Apple provides subsidized services (their service division runs at a loss) for people who want repair service, and at-cost OEM parts to anyone who wants to service their own phone. That's also why you have to buy parts individually - because they have to be paired to the phone. Yes, this is inconvenient for third-party service vendors who can't just keep a backroom of parts, but it's not infeasible, they just have to have users order their own parts. This is not John Deere where nobody but techs can even order parts, everyone can, they just don't want to have to.

The big-picture e-waste and service picture of iphones is completely fair overall for consumers. It's less fair for servicemen who have to deal with subsidized services and OEM parts being sold at-cost and losing revenue on selling those parts (rossman is not selling you a screen at-cost), but, that's what auto service centers had to learn to live with when RockAuto showed up in the picture too. And none of that is bad for consumers.

If you're just making a moral stand that you have a god-given right to put a $20 battery in your phone every 6 months instead of a $40 battery every 2 years, and you think that justifies unwinding anti-theft provisions and increasing e-waste to do it... just use the repair/service chains from the vendor like a normal human being, buddy. In the meantime we can all enjoy not having our phones stolen and stripped.

Or maybe a better analogy is removing immobilizers from cars. I have a god-given right to just have a normal metal key without needing to take it into the dealer to get it programmed, right? It's my car, why should I have to pay the manufacturer just to replace a $2 metal key? But in aggregate we're all better off not having well-developed criminal networks built around stealing and stripping cars... so people have just learned that they need to keep at least 2 spare keys at all times to program the immobilizer if they lose one, or else you'll have to take it in to a dealer and have the key programmed. It's just not that big a deal to most people, and actually the opposite is true - not having your car stolen is actually a huge deal to them.

Could you build a car without an immobilizer? Sure. Would it be more expensive to insure? Yes. Does anybody actually want that, apart from a few weirdos? No.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't the back cover just screw on and off? How often do you need to replace your battery? Maybe twice in 4 years? What percentage of people keep a phone for more than 4 years? 5%?

Not so much replacing as swapping for a spare to double life without recharging.

Samsung even made an ad about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hIoyb9L5g0

...but then stopped making removable batteries after that.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, though they can always make it easy to run a custom rom and rely on the community for (security) updates

Custom rom support would be helpful for a very niche audience, but it's not something that's going to make a dent in e-waste at all. I'm a pretty tech savvy user who runs Linux on my desktop and I'm too intimidated to try a custom ROM on my phone. The average Nokia customer isn't going to even know it's an option, much less be willing to take the plunge. If Nokia is serious about fighting e-waste they need to provide…

If the average user can't handle flashing a custom ROM (which is probably true), they can take it to one of the million phone repair shops and give them $10.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can totally see doing it on a router, but I'm scared to do it on a phone because I've heard too many horror stories about banking apps and similar refusing to run if they detect they're running on a rooted phone. I only have a smartphone in order to use all of the apps that people assume you'll be able to install. If a significant percentage of those won't work on a custom ROM, I may as well not have the device at…

It's fairly easy to bypass most of these with Magisk modules, like universal safetynet fix.

That's great, and something that I may eventually consider doing, but that doesn't help the average user who just wants to keep using their perfectly decent phone. Rooting their device and installing a custom rom is complicated enough without having to go through the process of installing extra modules.
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