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The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

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Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#141
post #99
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Videogames largely moving away from mapping/modding in general has been such a disappointing thing to me for many years now. I'm still playing Doom and Quake mods to this day and some of the content people put out is incredible. Recently an episode 2 for the Quake mod DWELL released and is of unbelievable quality that we couldn't have even imagined playing back in the 90s. Community servers on the other hand.. those…

Well let's go by https://steamcharts.com/ CS:GO : allows both custom maps and community servers Dota : allows custom maps, some of which have created and radically changed existing popular games like auto chess did to Hearthstone. These two games which are in the top 2 have more hours played than the next 8 games in that ranking.

Heck both of those games ARE mods of other games originally... They also both spawned off massive mods and copies themelves. Anyone remember the autochess craze of '18?

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#142
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Videogames largely moving away from mapping/modding in general has been such a disappointing thing to me for many years now. I'm still playing Doom and Quake mods to this day and some of the content people put out is incredible. Recently an episode 2 for the Quake mod DWELL released and is of unbelievable quality that we couldn't have even imagined playing back in the 90s. Community servers on the other hand.. those…

I think the world you're describing (and GP as well) is largely relegated to consoles. PC gaming has never been more moddable on average. In many cases, this even includes the exact same titles! For instance Bethesda titles on console range from zero to minimal modding, while on PC those exact same games allow complete and unlimited modding, alongside first party tooling support, to the point that you have entire ove…

Has it ever been "un-splintered" though? PC and consoles have always been wildly different. The difference is that these days more IP is launched at both markets.

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#143
post #86
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a lot of fond memories of playing on stupid custom TF2 maps. typical pl_badwater fan vs average koth_trainsawlaser enjoyer my guilty pleasure was 32v32 fast spawn on the usual payload and a/d standards, with regulars it is a very fun format. Yes, it is highly spammy and teams generally run multiple combos, and that changes up the tactics a lot. A pair of krubered demos (two combos) can break through (mk V.ba…

You can always recognized a TF2 player by how he will write a 5 pages essay about TF2 every time it is mentioned somewhere :P

TF2 is one of the all-time greats though, it's worth the column inches

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#145

Glass floor was a worse (or more amazing depending on your view) version of this kind of map. As the name implies the entire floor was glass panels and suspended over a giant pit with a very ominous look. You could see and fire almost anywhere, including down on the glass as people ran towards you, shattering the panels and watching them drop to their death. But you had to move yourself because everyone else could se…

Yes!! I loved this map. It had such a different strategy and metagame to normal CS - grenades and the m249 para became way more useful Edit: not that nades aren’t useful in vanilla cs, but they perform a different fucntuon

Hah that's right, I remember every start usually involved a big volley of grenades tossed out to randomly destroy parts of the floor and wreak havoc on strategy.

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#147
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The late-game balance changes (iron bomber, air strike, parachute, combo pyro nerf, everything) really all made the game worse in the name of "e-sports matchmaking" that never materialized. I would like to go back to the Love and War update plz, but keep the airblast changes and maybe a very few choice others, but that was peak funhaving and then the nerf bat came down for fun and meme loadouts to make the game "goo…

The game had already been ruined before 2014. The Mann vs Machine update was not good for the game. Free to play was the end of a lot of social mores that held the game/community together: ex. the backburner was op and nobody used it, if you did, you were ostracized. A month after, the Grordbort update of 2011 was also really bad; the laser weapons were obnoxious and if you had a lower end graphics card, broke the ga…

2011 is about when I started playing (although I have a copy from forever ago that I just never got around to, I have the "proof of purchase" in my inventory!) and yeah I'd definitely agree that f2p was the start of the "fortnite-ization" of tf2 where (what would become known as) casual play started to become the focus. I've heard it described as the "saturday morning cartoons of video games": just a silly little game, tune in next week for more fun. actually literally cartoons in the case of the bimonthly (rip) comics.

Before the proliferation of unlocks the game played a lot tighter as an actual game, let's say pre-2011/2012. 2011/2012 to 2015-ish is the saturday-morning cartoons period.

And I'm not saying either "serious game" or "silly little game" is better or worse, just that there's a bit of a tonal shift between, say, the pyro update and pyromania, right?

2015-2016 is maybe the tail of the cartoon period, that's pre-matchmaking, but also they started to have some bad ideas (iron bomber, parachute, air strike, nerfing combo pyro, etc) that made the game overall worse imo. Just a matter of taste but that's where they started circling the drain in design terms and going after some of the fun meme stuff, then later the e-sports thing came in and ruined it.

I think the irony is that the e-sports game they wanted in 2016 is already there, it's the game they had in 2011. But you can't take away people's unlocks and their hats, the things they'd pivoted to with casual made the pivot back to e-sports a lot more difficult, it's a lot harder to remove weapons from the game even if they don't fit what you're trying to make anymore. At best you can try for the "comp/casual" split (not that the split they ended up doing made any sense - 6v6 with no weapon/class limits? 12v12 with funhaving loadouts nerfed? that's the worst of both worlds) but the comp/casual split fractures the community too.

I think the other part of the problem is it's tragically unhip to have a 2007-vintage arena shooter as your e-sports title in 2016. I've heard the take "musk didn't want to own twitter, he wanted to own a network with twitter's size/reach that works and behaves completely different in every way". And tbh Valve didn't want TF2 to be an e-sports title, they wanted a title with TF2's userbase and reach that played completely differently from the thing they had spent the last 5 years turning it into. And then they took the CS:GO devs and tried to cut away the funny meme stuff and turn it back into a serious e-sports game and now it satisfies neither side.

But anyway yeah I completely get the feeling that TF2011 is a thing that a lot of people would like to play too, before things got too silly and too much about the hats/less about the actual game itself. I just also think that's really the serious e-sports game that Valve really wanted in 2015-2016 and they didn't know it.

Would love to see both TF2011 and TF2014. Hell TF2007/2008 would be funny too, let's have 6-pipe demoman and sentries you can't move (pyro kinda needs airblast though).

(actually the Xbox 360 version is frozen in time, because Valve refused to pay Microsoft to validate updates... it has the very first update because you get one free and welp guess that's it!)

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#148
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally liked MvM as a cooperative gamemode which added more depth to the classes in the form of upgrades. Easily accumulated a couple of thousand hours just playing that either on boot camp valve servers or community ones with custom maps and plugins (off the top of my head UberUpgrades and Potato come to mind). Didn't particularly like mann up as a) it costs money for each tour and b) it heavily incentivized y…

MvM isn't the issue; the other changes, like adding the Sentry Buster, were bad for the existing meta on a lot of other modes without adding anything better.

the sentry buster doesn’t exist outside MVM. Did you mean the caber somehow? Did you not like the caber existing, or it later getting nerfed?

Or please explain what you mean about how an mvm only enemy ruined casual meta somehow(?). I’m confused there

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#150
post #149

TIL I finally learned the meaning of "fy" prefix.

I always assumed it was "f*k you". But after a little digging, it turns out it's not "fight yard" either. According to this comment (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/community/profile/dmgkyd), the map was created by a 15 year old boy, who called himself Fantasy

> Why the map was prefixed with "fy_"? Because he didn't know how to put custom texture into maps, nor leave his signature. The only thing he could do was renaming "cs_iceworld" to "fy_iceworld". "fy" stood for "FantasY". He made a lot of maps prefixed with "fy_".

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