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Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

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Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#181

Post by cxr »

Dalewyn wrote: post #174
cxr wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a quote. Where can the words "it's stupid" be found? Here, let me show you a quote: > > lecturing everyone "No, you really want to have 0 risk, you fools" > On HN, please don't use quotation marks that make it look like you're quoting someone when you're not. It may seem a minor point, but we've found that it's important for clarity and respect. > Also, "lecturing everyone" is borderline name-calling, whic…

Do you know what paraphrasing is? I'll quote rules and other such things verbatim for accuracy, but I'm not going to quote entire paragraphs of some random writing verbatim since it's not worth my time.

You have, ironically, violated HN's rules here.

Please do not use quotes for things that are not quotes.

Please do not engage in name-calling.

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#182

Post by machinawhite »

bitwize wrote: post #54
peterkelly wrote: post #28

This is one of those important events in life where you realise that sometimes those who hold seniority over you aren't necessarily as smart as you are. This experience will help you to cultivate a healthy disrespect for authority. We all go through something like this at some point. The best thing to do is to find some sort of constructive way to channel your experience. One path I would suggest is to consider launc…

[flagged]

As a young person my takeaway was the opposite and your post only inspired me to break some rules just to spite you :-)

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#183

Post by Dalewyn »

cxr wrote: post #165
Dalewyn wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rule closes off with, their emphasis, "NOT permitted". If that combined with a specific name drop are "uncertain" to you, you should retake your English classes.

Perhaps you should bone up on your Latin. GitHub qua "template engine website" is "NOT permitted". That's certain. GitHub qua code host? Not only is that, in fact, not stated "in no uncertain terms", but insisting that it's both forbidden and that it's clear that it's forbidden comes across as trying to will your way to truth.

The rule states "... sites that generate HTML ... such as ... GitHub ... are NOT permitted."

Read that rule again, specifically "sites /that/ generate HTML" (emphasis mine).

You are not permitted to use sites that generate HTML, period. Even if you use a "site that generates HTML" like Github only as a file repository, that is still against the rule.

Your argument would be fair if the rule read like "using sites, such as Github, to generate HTML are not permitted", but that is not what the rule says.

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#184

Post by machinawhite »

Dalewyn wrote: post #110
denton-scratch wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The rules clearly state "no Github" Did you actually read the rules? "Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files, such as Webs, Wix, Weebly, GitHub, Jekyll, and Replit, are NOT permitted." That rule is NOT clear; it implies that Github is forbidden specifically as a "site that generates HTML". There's no reason to interpret it as meaning that you can't even li…

The rule is "Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files ... are NOT permitted." and goes on to mention an inexhaustive list of examples which names Github among others. That is abundantly clear you cannot use Github. If you didn't read the rules, that's ignorance. If you read the rules and knowingly violate them, that's arrogance. If you unintentionally violate…

And it boggles my mind how some people will blindly follow badly defined rules.

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#185

Post by rideontime »

kenneth wrote: post #67
bitwize wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Following the rules didn't help them. The rule was no templating tools that generate code. They didn't use that. It simply seems like they had to deal with a school official who was too dumb to know what GitHub was and too egotistical to admit they might be wrong. I actually dealt with something similar back in my high school days. I self-taught myself to program starting around age 10 or so. So by the time I was off…

Would love to hear the other side of this story.

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#186

Post by toastal »

vertis wrote: post #108
DocTomoe wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never, in 20 years in the business world - and that includes long years working closely with people in controlling - see anyone do something in Excel that could not be achieved in LibreOffice with similar effort. Yes, there is no 100% feature parity. But there is feature parity in the things that people actually use.

Yes, I think MS Office / Libre Office is a bad example. Adobe Cloud (Photoshop) to GIMP and Maya (or equiv) to Blender are far better points and counter points. The Adobe Creative Cloud ecosystem has very strong lock in todo with workflow and collaboration (amoung other things). It's not that you couldn't do the vast majority of those things with another tool (open or not, e.g. Affinity), it's that the company you're…

Godot also fits the bill quite well.

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#187

Post by the_only_law »

rkachowski wrote: post #56
Dalewyn wrote: post #48

[flagged]

> I'm happy to see them disqualified, it's a sign the world is still reasonably sane. The author is literally a schoolkid. The joy and validation you receive in seeing talented children denied recognition is fortunately not shared.

Heh, talk about arrogance…

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#188

Post by lelanthran »

olivermuty wrote: post #43
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They quote the rule and link to the full rules. GitHub is explicitly mentioned. They failed on a technicality. https://tsaweb.org/docs/default-source/themes-and-problems-2... She then points out this rule in the Official Rulebook: I. Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files, such as Webs, Wix, Weebly, GitHub, Jekyll, and Replit, are NOT permitted.

You only use the template engine if you go through github.io or if you look at .md files in the UI. So you are not even «technically» using the template engine part of Github. However root commenters sentiment is still very valid, the sooner you realize how many people who are not particularly smart also work in this business the sooner :D Developers are starting to become a pretty decent average representation of th…

> So you are not even «technically» using the template engine part of Github.

The rule didn't say some parts of Github was okay, the rule said Github was not allowed.

To not disqualify a team that broke the rules is unfair to those teams that read the rules and said "Okay, let's work without Github".

If you want to rescind a rule you have to do it before you are caught breaking it, not after.

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#189

Post by [deleted] »

synunlimited wrote: post #19

As a former student that competed in both National and State TSA events from 2006 to 2012 (and won multiple trophies across events including the "webmaster" competition) I'm not really surprised by this outcome. That doesn't mean that its the right outcome but just a result of how these competitions are run. The judges are all volunteers that may or may not have a background in the actual event they are there to grad…

[deleted]

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#190

Post by samb1729 »

lelanthran wrote: post #160
samb1729 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The students were neither ignorant nor arrogant for interpreting the rules as they did. The person who graded their submission is at fault here, and the students deserve to be told this if they’re reading these comments. Someone who doesn’t know the difference between hosting a git repo and generating a static site with GitHub is unqualified to judge this project. The real lesson for these students is that there are…

> The person who graded their submission is at fault here, How? The competitors who adhere to the rules are necessarily disadvantaged compared to the rule-breakers. How do you now fairly judge a competition when you change the rules after the game has ended? There is no other way to resolve a breaking of a rule other than by disqualification, because if you remove that rule after the game has ended then all the other…

What unfair advantage is gained by using GitHub to store the code? A privately hosted Gitea instance would have accomplished exactly the same thing without technically breaking a rule.

I would understand this point if they were leveraging Actions or something, but that isn’t mentioned so I’ll assume that is not the case. Their usage of GitHub does not appear to have been anything more than a convenient repository host.

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