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Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

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Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#161
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not on AP frontpage, posting merely 30 minutes after your post. https://imgur.com/a/BeQuARZ

Same here. It was on the AP front page. But is no longer.

Yeah I wonder for how many seconds it was there, since you can't even count it in hours, but "UFO" is still there as the biggest news in world as you can see in my screenshot and also by visiting the page.

For instance if I would not be BANNED from posting links on HN I'd post also this which I find more interesting news affecting everyone than some dumb made up baloons which are on par with Iraqi WMD

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/more-natality-data-from-o...

But aparently I'm ALWAYS posting too fast only when it comes to posts, but have no such problems with comments, it's sad how low can go HN in shadowbanning users without transparently communicating why is one banned from something.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#162

I see all the staunch supporters of deregulation across the board that normally come out of the woodwork on HN are strangely absent.

The immediate aftermath of a catastrophic failure of the regulatory state seems like an odd moment to take smug shots at opponents of the regulatory state.

You seem confused. The problem here was deregulation of safety standards.

This deregulation was thanks to lobbying, and strike breaking; _not_ regulation.

Hope this is clear, and not setting off your 'smug' trigger; because what I feel right now is fury, not smugness.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I disagree with you, but me and many others are planning our retirements accounts around assumptions of 8-9% growth. Stock market returns and real economic productivity aren't the same thing, but I think it would be deeply challenging for us to change course. Low growth creates a lot of new issues which are debatably worse than the axles-on-fire problem, but this is a conterfactual argument.

You’re setting up a pretty direct moral quandary here. How many human beings should we be willing to poison to keep the stock market going up?

With apologies to Patrick McKenzie: the optimal amount of dead kids is non-zero, and I think the revealed preference of america as a whole is that we are comfortable with quite a lot of dead kids if it brings political stability and a modicum of personal comfort.

School shootings, policing, our medical system, our political system itself (the uneven distribution of power between states), all of these suffer from the fundamental problem that we've got a system that's a solid 3/10 and we have no institutional interest in improving that. And yeah those systems grind up some dead kids every day and we shrug and move on. Thoughts and prayers is the meme, right?

Nobody wants to mess with the rail system because it will make the amazon packages stop. Let alone if there's a feeling (or a reality) of tipping back into the supply-chain issues of 2020 again. Can you imagine the reaction to a rail strike during midterm elections? People would legitimately have flipped their shit and voted in some completely vile motherfuckers who promised to at least make the amazon packages keep coming. So the union had to eat shit, and now your kids have to eat shit, because the union wasn't wrong about what they were saying, but it was all a complete political loser two months ago. Name a single ohio republican who wouldn't have leapt on the "biden picks the union over america and christmas".

And it works - people keep voting for this, based on actual revealed preference through voting patterns, people feel it's way more important to keep fighting the war on egghead intellectuals, this year's installement of the war on LGBT, and the war on climate science than to fret about some dead kids. Biden's doing a good job of understanding what america really wants - which is my god damn amazon packages to show up.

America is open for business, people want Norfolk Southern jobs and Duke Coal jobs and whatever else, and we're far too scared to make even those small leaps let alone reforming our whole healthcare system or retirement or redistributing power between states to something a little more sane. Those are truly big changes and we're not even willing to handle the little stuff. Jumping to the next thing is always scary, whether it's a job or anything else, even if the train is on fire it's the train on fire we know. Everyone has lingered too long in a job that was failing or with a partner that wasn't going to work out, but it's safe.

And America is the same way, by geographic and political coincidence we are essentially immune to external geopolitical pressure so there's nothing that's going to push us down. Which has allowed us to ignore underlying problems that would have pushed down other countries. A system that's designed to gridlock is fundamentally broken, people say "when you're not in power you'll appreciate it!" no actually I want someone always to be in the driver seat and empowered to make decisions, and we can go from there to making the political system actually represent what people want. Excessive checks-and-balances and a division between the executive branch and the legislature and not inherently positive things with no downsides, the PM being the leader of the ruling party is an overall positive feature of parliamentary systems.

The underlying problem is that this is not an issue the heartland of america wants to address, and the american system has (by historical circumstance and coincidences of fate) distributed a disproportionate amount of power to the heartland. The heartland wants to fight LGBT and thumb their nose at egghead intellectuals who want you to buy smaller cars to fight climate change, and they certainly don't want the unions to "win". That is what actually motivates people's votes. Again, name an ohio republican who would have "supported Biden and the unions" two months ago during midterms. It's fucking hard to make a system work when a group that has at least 49% of the power at all times is intent on being a deadweight or outright contrarian, if someone is willing to let your kids die to make bigger gains in midterms, and people keep voting from them, what exactly do you do about that? And not just on the trains either, it's all across american society.

But pulling the lever and diverting the trolley would decrease the political power of some farmers in Iowa, and deep down America is just not comfortable with that. "States should be equally represented" because haphazard admission of states across 200 years is a sacrosanct political bond even if it leads to 30% of the population controlling a supermajority of the political power. And if they do dumb shit with it oh well, shikata ga nai. The rest of the country has tried, we really have. What more can be done, could be done, that the heartland would possibly accept? The war on intellectuals and sexual freedom is just way more personally compelling than some dead kids who you probably didn't even know anyway. People just want their amazon packages to show up.

More kids will die next week, they always do. Shikata gai nai - thoughts and prayers. Nothing that can be done, says only country where this happens regularly.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#164
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was young, I assumed the 401k had been around forever. But it was introduced in 1978! We're nearing the end of the 50-year period that the guys who invented it would really need to get staggeringly rich off of the concept, and now that they're getting ready to die everyone's overreliance on the system they set up is causing total gridlock in American life. You can't do ANYTHING that threatens the stock market.…

This is very interesting - did you read this in a book or a blog or something? I’d love to add it to my list.

Honestly, I'm kind of drawing my own conclusions about the financial system based on what I've read. I'm also almost embarrassed to reveal my reading list, as it reveals me as a dilettante, with an undergraduate-sophomore understanding of economics. However, I am very happy and presently financially secure with a good life, so at least my choices about spending aren't completely stupid.

I would say these are the sources from which I draw a lot of my opinions about the financial system:

- Max Dama on Automated Trading (57-page PDF written by a quantitative trader)

- Out-Sourced Profits: The Cornerstone of Successful Subcontracting by Dr. J. L. Hart-Smith (memo written by a Boeing employee about why Boeing was failing to make money and simultaneously driving down quality in the airliner industry)

- The Big Short by Michael Lewis

- Hipsters on Food Stamps Parts I-III by The Last Psychiatrist (blogger whose blog, "The Last Psychiatrist", is my favorite source of writing and whose advice I orient most of my life and behavior around. Many of his other articles touch on the credit-based financial system)

- WTF Happened in 1971? (Website showing trends in American life after the gold standard was abandoned in 1971, it's not necessarily well-researched and they draw a lot of conclusions that more experienced researchers would contradict)

- Wikipedia (some great reads on the history of the joint-stock corporation, dollar, credit card, 401k, home loan, auto loan, credit score, etc.)

There's a lot of other things I've read, but they're not explicitly about the financial system. I feel very strongly about the structure of civilization and the process of creating engineered goods, and I find that most of my complaints about problems with those two things in modern times resolve back to "the people incentivizing work to happen in modern civilization are amoral, corrupt, and actively destroying the historical incentives that people had to work towards ends that could be described as 'common good'". This leads to my constant sniping about the credit system and 401ks.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I disagree with you, but me and many others are planning our retirements accounts around assumptions of 8-9% growth. Stock market returns and real economic productivity aren't the same thing, but I think it would be deeply challenging for us to change course. Low growth creates a lot of new issues which are debatably worse than the axles-on-fire problem, but this is a conterfactual argument.

You’re setting up a pretty direct moral quandary here. How many human beings should we be willing to poison to keep the stock market going up?

That quandary has always existed and been exploited. See outsourced manufacturing and waste disposal to poorer countries with less expensive regulations.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#166
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Derailment can be a result of sabotage. The location is near major food and water sources. So while not exactly a conspiracy yet, it seems important to understand exactly what occurred in this derailment.

Having taken a few rides on America’s rails, I don’t think it needs any sabotage. It’s collapsing on its own.

That's what makes it such a great target. The decaying state of our infrastructure makes it easy to sabotage in subtle ways and then blame it on negligence.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#167

Another example of people not taking into account the full life cycle of the products they purchase. Vinyl chloride was one of the main toxic chemicals dumped in this derailment and it is used to make PVC. You might want to think twice about using vinyl siding, windows, flooring, etc..

I'm assuming you want to go back to lead pipes?

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#168

I see all the staunch supporters of deregulation across the board that normally come out of the woodwork on HN are strangely absent.

In this case, the bad regulation that shouldn’t have happened was when Congress stepped in and broke a strike. Perhaps if the union was allowed to freely negotiate with a strike, this wouldn’t have happened?

It shouldn't be dependent on that condition. We shouldn't require unions to keep the general public safe from corporate malfeasance.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#169
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was young, I assumed the 401k had been around forever. But it was introduced in 1978! We're nearing the end of the 50-year period that the guys who invented it would really need to get staggeringly rich off of the concept, and now that they're getting ready to die everyone's overreliance on the system they set up is causing total gridlock in American life. You can't do ANYTHING that threatens the stock market.…

What’s the alternative? Pensions? If your retirement is dependent on a pension, and the pension goes belly up, then you’re left with a fraction of what you planned for (since PGBC doesn’t cover it all)

There is no pragmatic alternative. A debt-backed financial system will always fail to adequately provide for unproductive populations (children, elderly, disabled, insane). In fact, every financial system will fail to adequately provide for that population. The only thing that can provide for them is the deliberate actions of productive, able-bodied people, regardless of what financial system everyone is participating in.

I have a lot of ideas about what could be done, but it's all armchair revolutionary theorizing.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#170
post #139
post #71

This seems like it should be a bigger story.

It should, but UFO UFO UFO! I've lost faith in intelligence of HN users after they downvoted into oblivion anyone sceptical about COVID "vaccines" and pushed official safe and effective propaganda. It's same with this baloon smokescreen, notice how nobody talks about Nord Stream 2 sabotage by US, which was like 1 day affair, while they entertrain us with this UFO nonsense for days already. https://news.ycombinator.co…

> notice how nobody talks about Nord Stream 2 sabotage by US, which was like 1 day affair

This was discussed thoroughly when the incident happened and the recent news were just some allegations by a reporter, without actual new evidence. Doesn't seem like the balloon story is a distraction, especially since it's rather US-focused, unlike the Nordstream incident.

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