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Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

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Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#91

Post by colpabar »

quacked wrote: post #76
mschuster91 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not that I disagree with you, but me and many others are planning our retirements accounts around assumptions of 8-9% growth. Actions have consequences. When the entire retirement plan of everyone in the country able to set money aside in a 401k (which isn't applicable for a lot of low-wage employees) is tied to the stock markets, politics is effectively held hostage by the companies in the S&P 500 - politicians si…

When I was young, I assumed the 401k had been around forever. But it was introduced in 1978! We're nearing the end of the 50-year period that the guys who invented it would really need to get staggeringly rich off of the concept, and now that they're getting ready to die everyone's overreliance on the system they set up is causing total gridlock in American life. You can't do ANYTHING that threatens the stock market.…

This is very interesting - did you read this in a book or a blog or something? I’d love to add it to my list.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#92

Post by phkahler »

88913527 wrote: post #35
Frost1x wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect we're seeing more and more of these issues due to corner cutting in various industries. Air travel has already been a tight margin industry and take at look at all the air related issues we've seen recently, from FAA systems down to mass cancelations due to infrastructure to the recent runway conflicts and accidents we've seen. Speaking from anecdotal experience, over the years this constant push for more c…

Not that I disagree with you, but me and many others are planning our retirements accounts around assumptions of 8-9% growth. Stock market returns and real economic productivity aren't the same thing, but I think it would be deeply challenging for us to change course. Low growth creates a lot of new issues which are debatably worse than the axles-on-fire problem, but this is a conterfactual argument.

>> many others are planning our retirements accounts around assumptions of 8-9% growth.

Another aspect of retirement should be figuring out how to lower the cost of living. Unfortunately the notion that housing should be a sort of investment goes directly against that. It can't be affordable and also be a good investment.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#93

Post by neogodless »

YPCrumble wrote: post #36
beowulfey wrote: post #13

Although the reddit comments are interesting, it may be better to change this link to the original linked AP news article.

Reddit (and now HN) is the only source that shows this on the front page - I wouldn't have heard about it otherwise. Corporate news outlets have kept it from the front page.

There is a relevant article on APNews, and ~~it's~~ it was on their front page.

https://apnews.com/

https://imgur.com/a/Li9oDSO

An earlier article from APNews was submitted, but was likely missed due to timing.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34770772

Front Page Link (2023-02-13): https://apnews.com/article/evacuations-west-virginia-pennsyl...

Reddit Link (2023-02-08): https://apnews.com/article/rail-accidents-evacuations-ohio-h...

NPR Article (2023-02-05): https://www.npr.org/2023/02/05/1154718234/mechanical-defect-...

First Article (2023-02-04): https://apnews.com/article/pennsylvania-ohio-evacuations-fir...

See related discussions:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34758525 1 day ago, 128 comments "Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment"

Source: https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/east-palestine-train-de...

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#94

Post by dsfyu404ed »

paganel wrote: post #80
Chronoyes wrote: post #54

[flagged]

How is this not a "failure of capitalism"?

If it happened in Venezuela would it be a failure of communism? If it happened in Iran would it be a failure of theocracy? Of f-ing course not.

When you start talking about big organizations with tons of legacy rule-making and policy there tends to be a lot of misalignment of incentives that pops up over the years. It doesn't really matter the societal structure.

I'm betting this is a classic "when everyone is responsible nobody is" type of failure you tend to get in organizations that have double and triple redundant rules to prevent failure but no realistic way to do your job without shirking some of your responsibility.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#95

Post by bombcar »

88913527 wrote: post #35
Frost1x wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect we're seeing more and more of these issues due to corner cutting in various industries. Air travel has already been a tight margin industry and take at look at all the air related issues we've seen recently, from FAA systems down to mass cancelations due to infrastructure to the recent runway conflicts and accidents we've seen. Speaking from anecdotal experience, over the years this constant push for more c…

Not that I disagree with you, but me and many others are planning our retirements accounts around assumptions of 8-9% growth. Stock market returns and real economic productivity aren't the same thing, but I think it would be deeply challenging for us to change course. Low growth creates a lot of new issues which are debatably worse than the axles-on-fire problem, but this is a conterfactual argument.

Is that 8-9% growth before or after inflation? Because if it's before, that's going to end up being only 3-4% at best.

More and more I think people need to plan for retirement around expense reduction versus capital growth.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#96

Post by csomar »

alchemist1e9 wrote: post #27
dcist wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This odd fact will spawn thousands of conspiracy videos and crisis actor accusations. Cue ominous music…

Derailment can be a result of sabotage. The location is near major food and water sources. So while not exactly a conspiracy yet, it seems important to understand exactly what occurred in this derailment.

Having taken a few rides on America’s rails, I don’t think it needs any sabotage. It’s collapsing on its own.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#97

Post by dsfyu404ed »

colpabar wrote: post #56
YPCrumble wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit (and now HN) is the only source that shows this on the front page - I wouldn't have heard about it otherwise. Corporate news outlets have kept it from the front page.

A reporter was literally arrested for reporting on it. https://archive.ph/esy2M

Call me cynical but that explains why the media suddenly seems to care now but didn't seem to care earlier when it was a "developing story" they could have slung more eyeball grabbing ($$) fear porn into.

People on the parts of the internet HN stays far away from were sharing pictures of the crash and fireball for a few days before anyone gave a crap. Then someone arrests a reporter and suddenly the media has a bone to pick.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#98

Post by bombcar »

phkahler wrote: post #92
88913527 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I disagree with you, but me and many others are planning our retirements accounts around assumptions of 8-9% growth. Stock market returns and real economic productivity aren't the same thing, but I think it would be deeply challenging for us to change course. Low growth creates a lot of new issues which are debatably worse than the axles-on-fire problem, but this is a conterfactual argument.

>> many others are planning our retirements accounts around assumptions of 8-9% growth. Another aspect of retirement should be figuring out how to lower the cost of living. Unfortunately the notion that housing should be a sort of investment goes directly against that. It can't be affordable and also be a good investment.

There is one way to be both without causing disaster - defeat the devil of depreciation.

If you "invest" in your home/property by making it more durable and better you can have it go up in value and down in costs without needing infinite appreciation of land and structure.

For example, if you can spend $20k (random amount) and forever cut your heating bill in half, that's an investment that will continue to pay dividends "forever".

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#99

Post by lylejantzi3rd »

dcist wrote: post #20
lylejantzi3rd wrote: post #17

Here's something for your daily dose of "that's strange:" In 2021 residents of East Palestine, Ohio were extras in filming a train derailment scene for the movie "White Noise"(2022). "Ratner, 37, is in a traffic jam scene, sitting in a line of cars trying to evacuate after a freight train collided with a tanker truck, triggering an explosion that fills the air with dangerous toxins." https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/11/he…

This odd fact will spawn thousands of conspiracy videos and crisis actor accusations. Cue ominous music…

Conspiracies are a part of life and history. It pays to keep an open and curious mind.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#100

Post by Chronoyes »

paganel wrote: post #80
Chronoyes wrote: post #54

[flagged]

How is this not a "failure of capitalism"?

Do these accidents happen regularly in capitalist countries such as Sweden, Norway and Germany? If not then perhaps the problem is not capitalism but America's regulatory system.
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