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Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

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Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#161

Post by Schroedingersat »

acidburnNSA wrote: post #31
mkozlows wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that ironic. Electrification isn't a "welp, we're done now, yay" thing, it's one of two parallel paths that works together for decarbonization. 1. Electrify all the things 2. Clean up the electrical supply Obviously if you only look at one of the paths in isolation, it doesn't solve problems ("it's great that everything's electric, but electricity is still high carbon"/"it's great that electricity is clean,…

Why electrify all the things instead of decarbonize all the things? Lots of places use zero carbon nuclear district heating to take advantage of the hot water for building heat. It can be pumped 100 km from the plant as it is at Beznau. This makes nuclear more cost effective as well since you're using a valuable product (heat) that is otherwise wasted.

Of you're building the district heating anyway then a district heating reservoir, a heat pump and some solar collectors plus enough wind and solar for equivalent total gross heat output (in addition to the collectors) is still cheaper.

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#162

Post by zdragnar »

sbradford26 wrote: post #152
zdragnar wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, pretty much anything would save money over heating oil, including just burning money.

I know it is sarcastic but there is a website where you can calculate how much it would cost to heat with dollar bills. https://coalpail.com/fuel-comparison-calculator-home-heating

Where on earth did they get $250 for a cord of wood? Unless you're buying them 10-13 logger's cords at a time, then cutting and splitting it yourself, a cord of oak around where I live (which is not at all far from oak trees) is in the $450-550 range.

You can maybe push it down to $300/cord if you know a guy, but then you're not getting properly seasoned stuff, you're getting stuff recently cut from a dead tree left standing for a few years.

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#163

Post by flyingfences »

hinkley wrote: post #122
pen2l wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to this, I think we should go back to doing things the hard way, the old-school way: adapt and adjust your lifestyle to temperature changes like our ancestors did. Let the temperature dictate your cooking: do the dishes that require oven use, that require you to have 3 stoves on at the same time (and crucially, avoid these dishes in the summer!). Go on a bulk in the winter time so that you are more resili…

There’s something brilliant about having a big pot of soup stock simmering down in the dead of winter. Not only are you heating the house, you’re also humidifying it with the steam from the pot. The tricky one is canning. Harvest dates sometimes line up with heat waves and that’s either a sit outside with the windows open situation, or a suffer for your winter survival situation.

Some things you don't have to can right away. For example, we found that we can pick strawberries in-season, wash and top them, freeze them in gallon ziplocs, and then make jam later in the fall and it comes out the same as if you jam them same-day.

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#164

Post by flyingfences »

subpixel wrote: post #94

Electricity prices have jumped about 50% this year in Maine, so the calculations many used when installing heat pumps are way off. https://www.pressherald.com/2022/11/16/power-supply-rates-fo...

https://archive.is/VnYRJ

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#165

Post by flyingfences »

suls wrote: post #67

What’s the cost of a kWh in Maine? The newer houses here in Japan tend to be all-electric (water, stove, AC) and the current prices (~¥40/kWh) make a lot wish for kerosene heaters of the past decades.

(40 JPY is .304 USD today)

Most of Maine is paying .264 USD/kWh this winter.

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#166

Post by fomine3 »

mrguyorama wrote: post #141
luckylion wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when the electricity fails, all the systems fail. Pretty sure you'd be happy to have a wood stove in that case.

When the electricity fails, you put on a jacket and get under a blanket and wait patiently for CMP to restore your power. Most of us don't have emergency powerless heating. Even with a supposedly unreliable electricity grid here in Maine, it's still pretty common to only have heating that requires electricity to operate. Even in the north, where it's very rural and way colder, wood stoves are still an interesting thi…

A car (ICE/HEV/PHEV/BEV/FCEV) could be a backup heater

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#167

Post by fomine3 »

adql wrote: post #69
jfengel wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to me that if regulators allow that kind of dynamic pricing, then it would come with much cheaper rates at other times. Suppose you did pay $300 on one cold night... but it also turned out that your electric bill for May and September was basically $0. Would that be the worst thing in the world? Utilities are monopolies, and regulators keep an eye on their total bottom line. A massive yearly profit would come i…

No utility would want to build power plant that works 10% of the year tho, that's the problem

If they earn 50x on 5% of days, it looks make sense. A problem is that other player want to join the market so finally won't earn 50x

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#169

Post by AstralStorm »

pfdietz wrote: post #139
AstralStorm wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydrogen is terrible backup storage, as it evaporates through all known materials. Even as metal hydride or ammonia it's not great. (Density for the first, stability for the latter.) This is why everyone still uses hydrocarbons. Pity they don't make or burn them cleanly.

Hydrogen for backup storage for the grid would be stored underground. This is a demonstrated working technology.

Underground in what? Leaky container or an even more leaky cave?

There is a reason why there are low levels of hydrogen even in oil fields, while there are high levels of methane...

Re: Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback

#170

Post by sbradford26 »

zdragnar wrote: post #162
sbradford26 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it is sarcastic but there is a website where you can calculate how much it would cost to heat with dollar bills. https://coalpail.com/fuel-comparison-calculator-home-heating

Where on earth did they get $250 for a cord of wood? Unless you're buying them 10-13 logger's cords at a time, then cutting and splitting it yourself, a cord of oak around where I live (which is not at all far from oak trees) is in the $450-550 range. You can maybe push it down to $300/cord if you know a guy, but then you're not getting properly seasoned stuff, you're getting stuff recently cut from a dead tree left…

Those prices are just generic prices that you fill out with current prices. I have no idea on the validity of any of the prices filled in by default there, but I assume it is prices that whoever made the site many years ago had in their area.
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