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Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#121

Post by amalgamated_inc »

doc_gunthrop wrote: post #118
amalgamated_inc wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's totally more complicated even long before that. Not eating "enough" (and you don't get to define this, your body does) leads the body to drastically reduce calorie burn, leading to "starvation mode" and the accompanying symptoms. If, on the other hand, you manage to eat a lot of calories without activating certain biochemical switches (like one poster here mentions), you can build a lot of muscle without gaining…

Would you be able to provide a reliable source for your statements? I've heard certain segments of the population make claims about "starvation mode" but none that have been substantiated with any scientific evidence or conclusive studies. I also scanned through the comments looking for this poster you say who talked about eating without activating certain biochemical switches, but was unable to find it. Where is thi…

Source: tried it lots of times, you can find out yourself in about 3 days. Just start doing a water fast right now and see how long you can go :D

I was referring to this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34383428

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#122

Post by amalgamated_inc »

doc_gunthrop wrote: post #119
sethammons wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lost weight eating more while maintaining the same exercise routine. You can try to feel better with any "well actually" you can muster. I increased the same kind of food I always eat and lost weight.

Sounds like a miracle. Good for you

Not a miracle - there are actually lots of anecdotes like this. Typically from people who aren't currently or never have been fat. Turns out if your fat regulation works fine, eating more doesn't necessarily cause fat gain, especially if you're lifting or otherwise stimulating muscle growth.

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#123

Post by sombragris »

amalgamated_inc wrote: post #100
themitigating wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Big Science in nutrition, diet, and exercise is a grift" What's "Big Science"? You are also claiming it's all a scam? Every scientific study related to diet, nutrition, and exercise? "If the researcher is not also a practitioner (e.g. body builder or losing lots of weight) you can usually ignore the results." Why do they have to practice some fitness or nutritional art to study it? Wouldn't that make them more bias…

> Every scientific study related to diet, nutrition, and exercise? Pretty much. All the mouse stuff, self reporting, and meta-studies and you're already at what, 90-95%? > Why do they have to practice some fitness or nutritional art to study it Skin in the game and incentives besides "increase # of studies/citations" and "get grant money." Discovering vitamins was great, same for vaccines and probably monoclonal anti…

Agreed as far as nutrition is concerned.

Look at the cholesterol and fat-related "common wisdom" they promoted for decades: saturated fats bad, animal fats bad because cholesterol, etc.

Meanwhile I looked at my biochemistry textbook where the biosynthetic pathway for cholesterol began with Acetyl-CoA, which means that almost everything can be a precursor for cholesterol in the organism, be it carbohydrates, proteins, sugars, anything. The corollary for this is that should you want to reduce your cholesterol levels, a more appropriate course would have been to lower your calorie intake and perhaps a strategy to block cholesterol reabsorption on the digestive tract (the enterohepatic cycle) than just seeking a "low-fat" diet.

Today this perception was corrected, but it was sacred dogma for decades despite it conflicted with the basic facts of human biochemistry.

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#124

Post by amalgamated_inc »

sombragris wrote: post #123
amalgamated_inc wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every scientific study related to diet, nutrition, and exercise? Pretty much. All the mouse stuff, self reporting, and meta-studies and you're already at what, 90-95%? > Why do they have to practice some fitness or nutritional art to study it Skin in the game and incentives besides "increase # of studies/citations" and "get grant money." Discovering vitamins was great, same for vaccines and probably monoclonal anti…

Agreed as far as nutrition is concerned. Look at the cholesterol and fat-related "common wisdom" they promoted for decades: saturated fats bad, animal fats bad because cholesterol, etc. Meanwhile I looked at my biochemistry textbook where the biosynthetic pathway for cholesterol began with Acetyl-CoA, which means that almost everything can be a precursor for cholesterol in the organism, be it carbohydrates, proteins,…

You're entirely correct.

And since bad medicine dies one physician at a time, I know diabetics who were warned about saturated fat literally THIS WEEK. So the mistake might've been corrected in that it's not taught as dogma any more, but it'll take another 20-30 years for physicians to stop doling out this misinformation. To a diabetic, nonetheless.

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#125

Post by zackmorris »

zackmorris wrote: post #110

The best thing I did for my health the last year or two was taking a few weeks to form the habit of cooking a substantial breakfast every day. With no affiliation for the brands: * 2-3 eggs * an Impossible breakfast sausage (bacon is fine too but the ethics of it are hard for me) * a bowl of Nature's Path pumpkin seed granola with whole milk * a cup of OJ * 1-3 cups of coffee for ADD-like symptoms, depending on how c…

Wow I seem to have triggered myself after writing "catabolic", going off on a tangent about training routines when I meant to talk about nutrition. The above program is just a starting point, but I want to emphasize that it's worked for me throughout the years, especially when cycled with heavier programs like 5x5.

What I was going to say is that the body does protein synthesis for 24 hours after a workout, then healing quickly drops by a factor of 3. So it's important to shoot for around 200 grams of protein and not miss a meal the day after. But the day of the workout, it's ok to eat a little less, just make sure to eat 1-2 hours before exercise to have energy. That gives us an opportunity to either gain or lose weight without losing muscle, by scheduling our food intake in phase with protein synthesis.

That point about periodicity is what I was trying to get to, and why I believe that it's more important than variety. We can use 6-8 week training cycles to target muscle gain or weight loss. We can also tailor the program for work stress and seasons, maybe walking more to clear out cortisol during crunch time before a deadline, or eating more in the fall.

All of the above is the "why" behind which meal plans work. I don't think that eating advice makes any sense on its own outside the context of exercise.

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#126

Post by 3pt14159 »

subharmonicon wrote: post #75
3pt14159 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any study less than 200 people is essentially false advertising unless the population size is incredibly small (e.g., rare diseases) or the intervention has a crazy high prior (e.g., does getting shot in the chest lead to blood loss leading to passing out) so I consider these grants completely counter productive. There is a real benefit in having fewer pieces of junk to sort out and so many of these medical research…

Rather than “well meaning members of the public”, I think the larger problem is with health and science reporting which frequently reports findings of very small studies as if they are definitive fact, with very prominent and provocative headlines.

> health and science reporting

Is part of "well meaning members of the public" just as "YouTube commentary" is and "random celebrity that Googles something and repeats it on Twitter."

And quite frankly, so are scientists themselves. I have met far, FAR too many scientists that do not know the very first thing about statistics and yet feel competent to reference other people's research.

This is why I say it's a big pile of leeches for more than half this stuff. Sure the incentives are misaligned, sure its reporting, sure this and that. But what we really need here are people to say "no you idiot leeches don't do dittly squat to fix this problem."

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#127

Post by thechao »

amalgamated_inc wrote: post #120
thechao wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an identical twin brother; I began IF (eating only 1/3 of target calories on Mon/Fri) in 2012. We do functional similar levels of cardio, weight-training; we're both programmers, with similar hours. Right now, I'm 1/2 taller, ~70 lbs lighter, I have ~10 lbs more LBM, blood pressure and blood work is spot on. He's got high blood pressure, and is diabetes adjacent. I have a good friend who's an identical twin wh…

Why is losing fat bad?

Losing fat requires calorie restriction; calorie restriction will lead to loss of both fat and lean-body-mass. When you stop your calorie restriction, you gain back fat much more easily than lean-body-mass (this is a result of the Milwaukee starvation study). Lean-body-mass includes things like muscle, bone, and other things you'd rather keep. Furthermore, it can cause significant stress on other tissues.

The healthiest thing to do is just never be fat in the first place.

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