Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 127 posts

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#61

Post by jcoq »

johnday wrote: post #7

n=17, so read nothing into this result. Also, what they tested is having no fixed eating schedule. The effects (if any) of skipping breakfast every day consistently are not measured.

If we give substance X to 17 people and 100% of them die, I would recommend against taking substance X.

Of course, it's not as black and white here, but sample size and effect size should be considered in relation to each other. Previous research and theoretical expectations should also play a leading role.

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#62

Post by 3pt14159 »

subharmonicon wrote: post #45
paulpauper wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't get why some studies have so few partipants. How hard is it to recruit people for something like this? We're not talking rare diseases.

From what I have read in the past this is just how the funding tends to work. You write a grant proposal for a study with 20 people, get funding, get results, use that to get funding for another study with 200, then 2000, etc. Frequently they don’t manage to make it past the first couple levels because the results aren’t interesting.

Any study less than 200 people is essentially false advertising unless the population size is incredibly small (e.g., rare diseases) or the intervention has a crazy high prior (e.g., does getting shot in the chest lead to blood loss leading to passing out) so I consider these grants completely counter productive.

There is a real benefit in having fewer pieces of junk to sort out and so many of these medical research studies are just noise that well meaning members of the public cite and adopt into practice because they don't know any better.

It's the modern day version of leeches, essentially.

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#63

Post by johnday »

jcoq wrote: post #61
johnday wrote: post #7

n=17, so read nothing into this result. Also, what they tested is having no fixed eating schedule. The effects (if any) of skipping breakfast every day consistently are not measured.

If we give substance X to 17 people and 100% of them die, I would recommend against taking substance X. Of course, it's not as black and white here, but sample size and effect size should be considered in relation to each other. Previous research and theoretical expectations should also play a leading role.

In this case, previous research and theoretical expectations would indicate only a small effect, if any. This is covered in the introduction to the paper, which I'm sure you have read.

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#64

Post by glofish »

Recruited 17 (most likely non-random) people each of whom skipped a SINGLE breakfast, then had 3 regular days, then skipped a SINGLE dinner ...

Basic common sense indicates that it would be highly unlikely that anything of value could possibly be learned. The variability between people, meals, state of their lives, backgrounds, habits, behaviors, schedules, etc must be staggering.

Scientists will never admit to this but about 95% of published research, just like the one above, are more like practice runs where they are honing the skills of doing the research. Right down to writing papers.

There should be nothing wrong with practicing, alas since you can't get funded for practicing and training - everyone has to always be bullshitting each other how they are producing new insights.

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#65

Post by johnday »

carabiner wrote: post #60
johnday wrote: post #7

n=17, so read nothing into this result. Also, what they tested is having no fixed eating schedule. The effects (if any) of skipping breakfast every day consistently are not measured.

But the entire field of medicine is based on small studies with high power to achieve statistical significance, that lead to sequentially larger studies and eventually regulator approval or rejection. Are you saying the entire field is a sham? I urge you to write to the FDA immediately them to inform them that their methodology is gravely flawed.

I am saying that lay readers on Hacker News should not draw conclusions from this study on 17 people. Do you disagree?

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#66

Post by Jensson »

MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #16
kryz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Lots of other good research out there that suggests Dinner skipping > Breakfast skipping

Is it because you have more awake time after to burn the same calories?

The study seems to suggest it goes the other way: when you are awake your body needs to burn calories so being awake on an empty stomach will stress your body.

Note that the participants weren't overweight, if you are an average American this might not apply to you.

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#67

Post by pengaru »

jat850 wrote: post #18
arkadiyt wrote: post #3

> Meal skipping has become an increasing trend of the modern lifestyle that may lead to obesity I believe them that this is correct but does anyone know why? I thought all the "intermittent fasting" folks were losing weight?

Only by way of anecdotal experience, but if I skip a meal (or worse, two) I tend towards massive overindulgence at a later meal, and I don't have an innate sense for calorie intake estimation. So I will often end up eating far more calories at the later meal than I might have skipped in the earlier one. Not at all scientific, just 2 cents.

In my anecdotal experience, that's much more of a factor if my prevailing diet involves carbs - especially simple carbs/sweets. It feels more like a drug addiction I've briefly experienced withdrawal from before regaining abundant access.

On a more keto/low-carb style diet it's a much different experience, for me.

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#68

Post by sonofhans »

calr wrote: post #38

I have skipped breakfast since college when I was much more concerned about bulking up. I drink two coffees and that gets me through til lunch. I’ve never really considered alternatives to this routine. If I wanted to experiment with breakfasts what do people recommend eating? The priority would be energy levels, and mental clarity since I tend to work better in the morning.

A good breakfast, in my experience and readings, is mostly fiber, with some fat, and a little naturally-occurring sugar. Peanut butter toast and a banana does that perfectly. Yogurt with honey and a banana. Bread, cheese, and an apple. A boiled egg and butter toast. Cold leftover pizza :)

The fiber is most important, to provide some grist for your digestive system. The fat quenches some hunger and allows you to put off your next meal/snack with less discomfort. A little sugar provides some early energy.

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#69

Post by theteapot »

WalterSear wrote: post #48
theteapot wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's clearly not worth HN readers' time, how did it get published in "The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition"? Or am I just naive in thinking published in a Journal still means something? Why did it pass peer review?

It's a scientific journal - a place for the researchers to discuss and discover science. This is a lay forum - a place more suited to the discussion of decided science.

Yes exactly. If your average HN user can see sample size is too small, Journal reviewers should be able to. Your not going to discover or decide any science if your sample size is too small.

Re: Impact of breakfast skipping compared with dinner skipping

#70

Post by haskellandchill »

smcl wrote: post #42
arkadiyt wrote: post #3

> Meal skipping has become an increasing trend of the modern lifestyle that may lead to obesity I believe them that this is correct but does anyone know why? I thought all the "intermittent fasting" folks were losing weight?

I can't give you any good reason why this happens with "intermittent fasting" in particular, but I can tell you that it follows a similar pattern to every other fad diet. Almost everyone who follows them starts controlling what they eat, focussing on losing weight and they generally succeed in doing so for the first ~6 weeks. Then for whatever reason, a small number continue to lose weight and the remainder (the majo…

as far as cracking it I heard there's a drug now that pretty much solves obesity but insurance isn't covering it well. Wegovy maybe? Or Mounjaro? Maybe both: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-04505-7
Post reply on HN