Men Without Work (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#461

Post by lordfrito » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 8:40 PM UTC

lazide wrote: post #457

lordfrito wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about learning to live smaller. Not trying to change the world, but building a small world around you. Hiding in plain sight. Etc. Plenty of joy to be had even if you choose to disconnect from the nonsense around you. Something about Buddhism and suffering in there as well.

In my experience, it also grounds us and gives us useful feedback loops with what we can really control, and what really matters to us, the most. Which is super important. In my opinion, a lot of the crazier things going on in the world are due to a lot of people not being well connected or healthy with those things, and being susceptible to manipulation by outside forces looking to harness that angst.

This.

The digital era has propelled us further into the "hyperreality" that Jean Baudrillard wrote and warned us about. [1] You descend into pure madness the moment both feet leave the ground and you give in to it.

Our children are living in it, it will be all their children have ever known.

Living small is about keeping one foot firmly planet in the desert of the real.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#462

Post by selimthegrim » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 8:45 PM UTC

selimthegrim wrote: post #446

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I should die because those billionaires are in a dick measuring contest? The war in ukraine is a proxy war between nato and direct for russia. Some random Vlad and Boris have had nothing to do with it, didn't start it but now have to die, so that elenski, ursula, macron and biden on one side and putin, xi, whoever the iranian leader is on the other side measure their dicks. Sorry, but not sorry, fuck them. If they…

Shirley being from Slovenia you must’ve seen that Yutel interview of Bosniak JNA conscript going wtf am I doing here in 1991

*Surely

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#463

Post by freshpots » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 11:33 PM UTC

jimmygrapes wrote: post #292

beyond_based wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to look at it from a certain perspective. It’s not just misogynist. It’s also misandrist. I don’t just blame women, I blame the men for failing to uphold society to a higher moral standard and letting petty things like envy, greed, and selfishness take over them, at which point a woman can easily further manipulate them to do their bidding. Our increasingly decadent society wouldn’t be so if men realized the…

FWIW I'll take the flags with you and for the same reasons. I'd love to discuss my reasoning further with those who disagree with me, but we all know (haters and lovers alike) that it won't get that far. For now I'll just say to those who disagree: is the world and culture you've built so rapidly and defend so vociferously truly working to the ends you intend?

You really need to give a platform to a person like that? We fight for rights only to have someone like them trample over them because of twisted logic like yours. They are the kind of person that would agree with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_Polytechnique_massa...

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#464

Post by freshpots » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 11:36 PM UTC

beyond_based wrote: post #185

freshpots wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't flag it, but I am not even remotely surprised that it was. You have an incredibly toxic, misogynistic, and incel-based worldview that is very unhealthy. Virtually every ill you stated was the fault of women, even consumerism and violence. How many women were mass shooters again? Started wars? It is frightening that you really think that way, and I worry for those in your orbit after hearing that you are enti…

You have to look at it from a certain perspective. It’s not just misogynist. It’s also misandrist. I don’t just blame women, I blame the men for failing to uphold society to a higher moral standard and letting petty things like envy, greed, and selfishness take over them, at which point a woman can easily further manipulate them to do their bidding. Our increasingly decadent society wouldn’t be so if men realized the…

"These are all symptoms of a societal illness."

Yet you are healthy with your beliefs? What you say is in some cases much worse than them, I can't speculate on what you have acted on/done:

"Our increasingly decadent society wouldn’t be so if men realized they hold the keys to building and maintaining prosperous societies, and can refuse the corrupt inclinations of women hellbent on ruining it all for materialistic, personal gain. And that of other men who desire power and money and materialistic things for the sad approval of women."

More of you blaming women for all of societies problems. A guy with less extreme opinions than you did this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_Polytechnique_massa...

and others like him will read your extremist words and feel right at home with that kind of mindset, the same way you learned to see the world how you now do.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#465

Post by anon291 » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 12:05 AM UTC

lordfrito wrote: post #445

anon291 wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Society' isn't a homogeneous thing. You describe common American society, but there are both subcultures in America as well as foreign cultures, who may or may not have the problem you describe. > Or maybe this is a win for feminism? Women finally have work equality and so men don't have to work as hard anymore. That stops working the moment young men from a subculture or from a foreign culture decide to work hard a…

> 'Society' isn't a homogeneous thing. That's probably part of the problem. Subcultures are great, but they aren't the dominant culture. If you get too many subcultures, you start to dilute/fracture your primary culture. The center cannot hold. That's what we're going through now. Alternately, if a single subculture gets too large it simply takes over, that or as you said, we simply get conquered by an outside cultur…

> That's probably part of the problem. Subcultures are great, but they aren't the dominant culture. If you get too many subcultures, you start to dilute/fracture your primary culture. The center cannot hold. That's what we're going through now. Alternately, if a single subculture gets too large it simply takes over, that or as you said, we simply get conquered by an outside culture.

For me personally, none of this is a problem. I see it as a great source of opportunity, since my family mostly holds to traditional norms, and historically speaking, that means we'll come out ahead. As long as we can prevent the encroachment of the apathetic larger society, I'm hoping we'll win in the end. Good luck.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#466

Post by lordfrito » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 1:55 AM UTC

anon291 wrote: post #465

lordfrito wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 'Society' isn't a homogeneous thing. That's probably part of the problem. Subcultures are great, but they aren't the dominant culture. If you get too many subcultures, you start to dilute/fracture your primary culture. The center cannot hold. That's what we're going through now. Alternately, if a single subculture gets too large it simply takes over, that or as you said, we simply get conquered by an outside cultur…

> That's probably part of the problem. Subcultures are great, but they aren't the dominant culture. If you get too many subcultures, you start to dilute/fracture your primary culture. The center cannot hold. That's what we're going through now. Alternately, if a single subculture gets too large it simply takes over, that or as you said, we simply get conquered by an outside culture. For me personally, none of this is…

> For me personally, none of this is a problem. I see it as a great source of opportunity

Yes!!! Finally I found one!!! You are the wind beneath my wings today.

That's why immigrants will risk their lives to come to America, and absolutely thrive once they get here. So much opportunity to build a future. And the rest of us get to assimilate their positive cultural values into our own. That's real diversity for you. The Great American Melting Pot. This is still an amazing country, plenty of success stories all around, no matter whatever digital media is screaming at you.

I firmly believe that this epidemic of whatever it is will be over in time. Like McCarthyism, which destroyed many lives due to accusations of wrong-think, and had to run it's course.

For those that don't recall, what finally killed McCarthyism is that it got so ridiculous that the powerful McCarthy was finally called out publicly in a televised congressional hearing "Have you no sense of decency sir?" He was dead within 3 years, a broken man. Worth the watch. [1]

It's definitely getting ridiculous here. A McCarthy moment is coming. After which it will be safe for the general public to say "Enough's enough". What's important is helping build something constructive afterwards.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svUyYzzv6VI&t=153s

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#467

Post by WhiteBlueSkies » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 1:59 AM UTC

annyeonghada wrote: post #440

WhiteBlueSkies wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know it's always the intellectuals who fret so much about life. I've seen construction workers succesfully dating and being happy and enjoying life. Maybe we overthink things too much. We'll be fine.

Your lived experience is irrelevant. Statistical trends are.

No, it's not truth is on the streets and not on your spreadsheets. Life is to be lived and not thought of.

If you consult statistical trends there's no reason for anyone ever to even feel any amount of joy. Either the economy is in collapse or headed towards a collapse. Either you are healthy and thus headed for illness or ill already.

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#468

Post by nokya » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 1:25 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #300

scottLobster wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it seems like there used to be a cultural value of putting people to work. Generally speaking you had to be a real fuck-up to not get a job. Maybe the jobs available weren't the best, but you could get something to pay for basic food/housing with little effort or credentialing. The attitude was, if you were a decent person and willing to work, "come by and we'll find something for you to do". Now the zeitgeist i…

The US unemployment rate is 3.7%. Even the fuck-ups can get a job if they want one.

That number does not reflect those you seem to be referring to. The unemployment rate reflects the ratio of the number of people registered as beneficiaries of unemployment insurance to the number of people registered as employed.

It does not include: - those who don't work and can't benefit from unemployment insurance (e.g., anyone fired from work for misconduct, - those who don't work and are not looking for work - those who don't work and can't work

That makes much more people overall. A recent Pew research published in 2020 estimated that an estimated 29% of unemployed americans are included in that number.[1]

1.https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/04/24/not-all-une...

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#469

Post by nradov » Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 7:12 PM UTC

nokya wrote: post #468

nradov wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US unemployment rate is 3.7%. Even the fuck-ups can get a job if they want one.

That number does not reflect those you seem to be referring to. The unemployment rate reflects the ratio of the number of people registered as beneficiaries of unemployment insurance to the number of people registered as employed. It does not include: - those who don't work and can't benefit from unemployment insurance (e.g., anyone fired from work for misconduct, - those who don't work and are not looking for work -…

No, you don't understand how the BLS counts unemployed people. They are counted as unemployed even if they were fired for misconduct.

https://www.bls.gov/cps/lfcharacteristics.htm#unemp

Re: Men Without Work (2016)

#470

Post by dang » Sat, Jan 07, 2023, 2:25 AM UTC

yucky wrote: post #434

dbingham wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is a very naive view of how elections work, wouldn't you say? Pardon me, but I'm going to make a mild appeal to authority for a moment. I have run for office, served on a mayoral transition committee, worked closely with elected officials on a range of policy issues (many of which got implemented), and my family are professors in public administration at the top public affairs school in the US (specializing in…

> So... uh... I feel pretty confident I know what I'm talking about when I say, that's not naive... that's exactly how elections work. That's adorable, but it's simple naive to think the guy on the McDonalds counter has as much input in elections as the PhD in public policy. Which is for the best because why in the fuck would we want a system where anybody no matter how stupid, gets equal say in how society runs? We…

Hey, could you please stop breaking the site guidelines so we don't have to ban you again? You've been doing this repeatedly, unfortunately.

I don't want to ban you but we need people to follow the rules here. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to them, we'd appreciate it.