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AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

fortressofdoors.com

191–200 of 292 posts

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#191

> A Market for Lemons > In which the internet gets clogged with piles of semi-intelligent spam, breaking the default assumption that the "person" you're talking to is human. Neal Stephenson's novel Anathem briefly mentions something like this as part of the novel's worldbuilding.

Don't you mean Fall: Dodge in Hell?

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#192
post #173
post #156

Authors making this argument (which we see often now) really need to sketch out why cryptographic solutions will fail. The entire thesis rests on this erroneous sentence in the second point: “This can be done in two ways – just move to invite-only silos where you already know everybody, or big platforms where the owners do the vetting for you.” There are more options. We employ them when we are forced to; when it bec…

One of the biggest problems in actually using cryptography in the real world is matching keys to identities. Using cryptography to solve the fake persona problem only works if the key-identity matching problem is solved. It would be great if the fake persona problem was the impetus that managed a solution to the key-identity matching problem. But I have my doubts. Notably the key-identity matching problem isn't techn…

How about we let people generate their own keys, then use those keys to make identity claims, when people can generate on their own, or which can be generated by a third party. That gives multiple options to bind identities to arbitrary social media accounts etc without needing some monolithic root of trust.

I also really like the idea of using the keys to hold some amount of value, such that if the keys ever get leaked, there is basically a built in bug bounty to alert the key holder (since the key thief has the option to take all the money). This also gives users the incentive to manage their keys in a sane way.

Social key management schemes are also super interesting, and will likely be a part of future key management schemes. That is, basically, allowing some set of friends and family to re-roll or revoke identities that have been lost or stolen.

Slowly but surely, I think this future is coming. Lots of good people are coming at it from different angles, but basically all converging on the same general concepts.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#193
> What happens when most "people" you interact with on the internet are fake? I think people start logging off.

I don't necessarily think that's the case. Remember the old "nobody on the internet knows you're a dog" cartoon? Well, I think that for a lot of things, nobody cares if they're talking to a dog.

People only care about people on the internet being fake in certain contexts. They'll very much care if all of their dating app matches are robots, because the end goal of a dating app is actually meeting someone in the flesh.

But I don't think that people on Nextdoor and Facebook groups particularly care - or would even notice - if they're talking to robots. As far as I can tell from my limited exposure, most people like getting caremad in comments. Even in local groups, it doesn't feel like there's much connection being made between neighbors; an AI complaining about traffic or agreeing/disagreeing with someone's political opinion would scratch the same itch as someone two towns over doing it.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#194

> A Market for Lemons > In which the internet gets clogged with piles of semi-intelligent spam, breaking the default assumption that the "person" you're talking to is human. Neal Stephenson's novel Anathem briefly mentions something like this as part of the novel's worldbuilding.

Don't you mean Fall: Dodge in Hell?

I don't remember if Fall also talked about this; I only read it once, and don't remember too many details. But Anathem definitely did; here's an HN comment quoting it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14554765

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#195

> A Market for Lemons > In which the internet gets clogged with piles of semi-intelligent spam, breaking the default assumption that the "person" you're talking to is human. Neal Stephenson's novel Anathem briefly mentions something like this as part of the novel's worldbuilding.

Accelerando by Charles Stross has an even more prescient version where humanity dissembles the planets to make giant computers which end up being filled with sentient pyramid schemes.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#196
post #2

> Second, I think people will start to put a premium on accounts being "verified" as genuinely human. IMO this is long overdue. And I think people should/will eventually even pay for this feature. > Powerful nation states will be more than eager to assist them in this regard. I agree - world governments could consider even subsidizing this in some way in order to foster fewer anonymous botnets sowing discord. The web…

> Having a digital reputation that you can taint could put people on their best behavior.

I've seen some pretty reprehensible behavior from people who put their full name and a photo of their face on Facebook.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd be happy to pay a fee to become a member of a community with vetted participants. FreeMasons and premium golf clubs!

Problem is, both can still be filled with less than bright people. If you have an interest in, say, the math behind various AI techniques. Or maybe an interest in digging into the differences between different, (but seemingly similar), cancer therapies. (Think TIL v CAR-T). You won't get that at the golf club. You will need some kind of vetted discussion group.

Looks like you want to make a post-grad.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#198

Regarding the Third point, I can already see part of this movement. I've become disenchanted with the quality of the discourse. Specifically as I've entered a more senior stage of my career, I'm looking to mingle with like-minded folks in similar situations. Thing is, these folks don't usually lurk online, and even if they do, their voices get overwhelmed by the flood of (mostly low quality) content. I'd be happy to…

You might enjoy LessWrong[1].

1. https://lesswrong.com

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#199

Regarding the Third point, I can already see part of this movement. I've become disenchanted with the quality of the discourse. Specifically as I've entered a more senior stage of my career, I'm looking to mingle with like-minded folks in similar situations. Thing is, these folks don't usually lurk online, and even if they do, their voices get overwhelmed by the flood of (mostly low quality) content. I'd be happy to…

I ran a private online bookclub a few years ago, really tried to filter and vet the people who wanted to join. Ended up with a decently sized group of wonderful people and lots of long form written discussion—we read good books and talked about good books, it was lovely. I approached the screening/vetting process as if I was hiring. I got some angry emails about the approach, made it seem "exclusive" and elitist, but it worked out well for the group.

I'll launch the next iteration after the first of the year, this time there might be a fee attached, at least a minimal amount to pay for the SaaS product we'll use to organize and collaborate.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#200
post #44

Regarding the Third point, I can already see part of this movement. I've become disenchanted with the quality of the discourse. Specifically as I've entered a more senior stage of my career, I'm looking to mingle with like-minded folks in similar situations. Thing is, these folks don't usually lurk online, and even if they do, their voices get overwhelmed by the flood of (mostly low quality) content. I'd be happy to…

It isn't so much about vetting participants than about moderating the discourse , which is hard to do right, and usually relegated to the few people who are willing to do it for free , which is bad quality (like reddit) Ai can be used to moderate discussions however , if it is trained to remove low effort in an unbiased way

In my experience, the more you vet participants the less you have to moderate.
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