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AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

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Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#131

Post by drdrek »

clnq wrote: post #76
seydor wrote: post #23

The internet is not limited to Social networks. The "Market for lemons" has existed for decade, google is a market for lemons where people buy from SEO spam, Google assistant , Siri , amazon are also. The logging off is a pipe dream for some people, even though they know that humans are informational creatures and that the "offline world" has never lived up to the desirable one since the time books were invented. Doo…

The internet is full of lemons, not only social media, SEO-influenced services, and services where money buys you reach. If you take any popular medical fact (for example, about diets), you will find countless published academic articles supporting and against it. This extends into other fields like physics, sociology, and politics too. But the contradictions there (while present) are not as overtly visible. Many pop…

Most probably it will solve itself. Altavista was a useful search engine until it was not, than it was replaced by google. Google was a useful search engine and its getting primed for a replacement. Usually things do not pan out as Utopia or Dystopia but some human middle ground of kinda shitty balance :)

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#132

Post by Kye »

angarg12 wrote: post #25

Regarding the Third point, I can already see part of this movement. I've become disenchanted with the quality of the discourse. Specifically as I've entered a more senior stage of my career, I'm looking to mingle with like-minded folks in similar situations. Thing is, these folks don't usually lurk online, and even if they do, their voices get overwhelmed by the flood of (mostly low quality) content. I'd be happy to…

I find a lot of this on Mastodon's branch of the fediverse. It's getting worse with the migration from Twitter, but I'm optimistic that the fact that it isn't Twitter and doesn't want to be Twitter will deter most of the more obnoxious people and help those that make it through blend their uniqueness with what's already there in a healthy and prosocial way.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#133

Post by d_e_solomon »

emporas wrote: post #4

Spam will flood a lot of places for sure. But there is a solution! We were just talking about it in a lively and informative thread on lichess. [1] A social graph, in which people are confirmed as humans from the outside world as well as from the virtual world, connecting hierarchies of pseudonymous accounts together. The social graph of reputation systems, has a necessary constraint, it has to be retained in the blo…

After the crash of FTX, it's going to take a long time for anyone to trust anything that has blockchain in its description. Fair or unfair, the entire ecosystem is tainted.

I'm also suspicious of claims that an algorithm is uncorrupted by human power. Every computer algorithm is made by people who have human motivations.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#134

Post by Ensorceled »

linuxftw wrote: post #128
chii wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $5-to-join social network if those site could convince important/popular people for exclusivity, they could pull it off; i imagine it can work like spotify exclusive podcasts, or some such, since most people don't actually produce content, but consume.

I feel like twitter is trying to do this? $8/mo for premium members, all the celebrities are there already.

Well, with Twitter, the $8 ($11 on mobile) "premium" members are pretty much all people I would rather avoid.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#135

Post by Kye »

jnwatson wrote: post #118
ben_w wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spam filters are indeed amazing, but I do get a non-trivial number of false positives these days. Spam is a moving target.

And the movement of spam just accelerated with ChatGPT.

I have a feeling Bayesian spam filters will be highly effective at picking out patterns in anything generated by a particular model. The arms race will move from spammers coming up with new templates to spammers coming up with new models.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#136

Post by [deleted] »

citizenkeen wrote: post #127
_as31 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like Lobsters has better quality discourse nowadays though, due to its much more explicit vetting system. I am not part of that website, yet I love reading the comment section there.

What is this? My Google-fu is weak.

[deleted]

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#137

Post by Ensorceled »

seydor wrote: post #95
wkat4242 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the discussion between carefully vetted participants needs to be moderated. We go for moderation too quickly these days. Of course if someone goes crazy they should be banned but in less extreme scenarios a well chosen group should behave, just like it's but necessary to moderate a social gathering in real life.

but it s exclusionary which defeats the purpose of the internet as an open forum

> the purpose of the internet as an open forum

The purpose of the internet hasn't been to be an open forum since sysadmins were blocking the talk.* hierarchy and kicking entire nodes off of usenet for spam or abuse.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#138

Post by PeterisP »

ls15 wrote: post #78
brundolf wrote: post #67

For me this feels spot-on. But I wanted to comment on one thing: > Fourth, we'll see a resurgence and even fetishization of explicitly "offline" culture, where the "Great Logging Off" becomes literal I actually think the author undersold this a bit, because even once you've siloed into social buckets with people you already know- as long as it's digital communication, you can't quite be sure it's really them . Even i…

With cryptographic signatures I could at least verify that something stems from the same account that I previously agreed with, but this would require people to be able to manage their own private keys. Actually nothing would stop people from signing their own comments today and sometimes it is done. With e2ee messengers I feel pretty confident that a message comes from the right / real person after I verified their…

It can't provide confidence that the message comes from the right/real person, because even without any breach of secrets (which happen even to competent people/organizations) all that gives you is confidence that the message comes from someone authorized by that right/real person. It could be another person, or it could be data generated by an automated system to which they gave the credentials for whatever reason - historically rich people used personal secretaries for writing all kinds of responses including personal ones ("I'm so grateful for your invitation to visit, let's ..." didn't necessarily mean that the actual person even read your invitation), and if an "artificial secretary" becomes good enough, people will use it in future.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#139

Post by didericis »

m_fayer wrote: post #120
donkeyd wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> their voices get overwhelmed by the flood of (mostly low quality) content I have the same issue. People place so much trust in their preferred sources of information and don't question anything they read. Because of this I have a hard time discussing anything beyond the most basic things with many friends, since they just repeat talking points and opinions of others. It's so enlightening when I do find someone who'…

I don’t think the root cause here is excessive trust in preferred sources. What’s actually at play here, is most peoples weakness at perspective taking. Truly understanding a given issue requires the ability to have your own perspective and to give equal credence to the other plausible perspectives. Many people do not pause to consider alien perspectives, and are disoriented when confronted with them. Therefore, they…

The opposite is also true. People who love seeking out alien perspectives have a virtually unlimited amount of ability to find and commingle with whatever community they can think of online.

I think the optimism of the early internet was due to a dominance of users with that kind of personality. It wasn’t apparent to that type of person that others are not excited by that perspective hopping opportunity and not only would not take advantage of it once being online was more accessible, but would actively use the same technology to further silo and entrench themselves.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#140

Post by Ensorceled »

seydor wrote: post #23

The internet is not limited to Social networks. The "Market for lemons" has existed for decade, google is a market for lemons where people buy from SEO spam, Google assistant , Siri , amazon are also. The logging off is a pipe dream for some people, even though they know that humans are informational creatures and that the "offline world" has never lived up to the desirable one since the time books were invented. Doo…

> Doominess and gloominess is the real disease of our times

I see SIGNIFICANTLY more homeless people in the two cities I frequent than at any other time in my life, there is a snow covered tent city half a kilometer from the glass monstrosity Google has built here and mostly doesn't occupy. Facism is on the rise globally. A third world war is possibly percolating in Europe. Google is soaking up all the bulk of revenue that used to go to publishers. Amazon has destroyed at least half of bookstores.

But sure, I guess gloominess is the issue. Does all of the above make you happy somehow?

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