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AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

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Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#111

Post by rjtavares »

visarga wrote: post #74
seydor wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't so much about vetting participants than about moderating the discourse , which is hard to do right, and usually relegated to the few people who are willing to do it for free , which is bad quality (like reddit) Ai can be used to moderate discussions however , if it is trained to remove low effort in an unbiased way

> It isn't so much about vetting participants than about moderating the discourse Vetting, moderating ... none of them scale well when done manually. The solution I see is that everyone have their own AI filters, customised as they see fit. You can include or exclude specific people and topics, make it as diverse or narrow as you like, allow challenging opinions or not. One of the filters can be to detect AI bots. Do…

Yeah, I really want this to happen.

I follow really interesting people for their thoughts about one topic (say, Movies), but whose tweets about topics like politics I really dislike (not necessarily things I disagree with, usually I just dislike the tone).

Shouldn't be too hard to fine tune a LLM to do this, definitely something worth a try.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#112

Post by birdfood »

I've been thinking about similar things lately, and particularly I think about the 3 billion humans who have never used the internet. How will this affect them? And how do they interpret this existential crisis we are facing?

Additionally, when the internet is mostly created by bots, why would I go online to look up a recipe on a bot cooking blog that was generated yesterday when I could have my pocket bot generate a brand new, tailor made cooking blog for me whenever I want? Ditto for instagram/tiktok. Generate the next image based on how long I looked at the last one.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#113

Post by Renaud »

wyldfire wrote: post #2

> Second, I think people will start to put a premium on accounts being "verified" as genuinely human. IMO this is long overdue. And I think people should/will eventually even pay for this feature. > Powerful nation states will be more than eager to assist them in this regard. I agree - world governments could consider even subsidizing this in some way in order to foster fewer anonymous botnets sowing discord. The web…

>loss of anonymity comes with significant drawbacks: criticizing government and powerful people becomes more difficult.

How don't see how making our lives more dystopian can be a net benefit.

How many of us expose different aspects of ourselves through different identities? Maybe most people are happy to show everyone all aspects of their lives, but I'm not, in part because who I am could get me or the people I meet in trouble, harassed, imprisoned or worse in some places.

Anonymity should remain a fundamental right. We have the right to live and expose different parts of ourselves to different audiences without overlap.

Anonymity is also a counter-power to governments. A government that knows all about its citizen is bound to abuse this power.

We see it in many democracies; elected governments enact laws that restrict freedoms to keep itself in power (Russia of course, Turkey, Algeria, but also EU countries like Bulgaria). Tools like government-issued ID that become mandatory to express yourself online are doubly dangerous: they make it easy to target those who cause trouble, and they can be used to remove means of expression (who can listen to you if you are denied an ID and there is no freedom of press to expose the abuse?).

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#114

Post by seydor »

sokoloff wrote: post #110
seydor wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but it s exclusionary which defeats the purpose of the internet as an open forum

What is the underlying purpose of an open forum? Is it the openness itself, or something that openness allows? I think it’s the latter: allowing people with common interests who wouldn’t otherwise connect in real life to interact meaningfully. If that’s the case, 100.00% open might not be optimal if 99.9% open yields better results for the resulting community.

different forums can have different purposes. Personally i prefer the public kind, which expose me to different ideas. The common interests i prefer to discuss in real life

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#115

Post by mrtksn »

kristiandupont wrote: post #101

I can imagine a future where it's quite easy to fake real people. By gathering information, pictures and maybe even videos of a person, you might be able to deep fake a credible video of them. It might know their address and use pictures and Streetview material to have them "record" a video from their house. That means that a clever script would be able to figure out who a persons real friends are (that info is easil…

Certainly this is within the reach of the tech.

What I'm afraid of is, this will dull people because the computer models would not have the fidelity of a real person(simply because only small portion of humans thoughts are expressed and even less recorder). Many people will prefer to interact with this shallow model of humans instead of real ones in similar manner of porn replacing real sex.

It will create armies of people who have no real skills with working or even interacting with humans. Representing people as avatars and a nickname already created huge issue with perfectly nice people forgetting that they are interacting with real people online, turning into huge jerks. I can imagine how horrible in could become when people are completely disenfranchised from reality.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#116

Post by exit »

ls15 wrote: post #78
brundolf wrote: post #67

For me this feels spot-on. But I wanted to comment on one thing: > Fourth, we'll see a resurgence and even fetishization of explicitly "offline" culture, where the "Great Logging Off" becomes literal I actually think the author undersold this a bit, because even once you've siloed into social buckets with people you already know- as long as it's digital communication, you can't quite be sure it's really them . Even i…

With cryptographic signatures I could at least verify that something stems from the same account that I previously agreed with, but this would require people to be able to manage their own private keys. Actually nothing would stop people from signing their own comments today and sometimes it is done. With e2ee messengers I feel pretty confident that a message comes from the right / real person after I verified their…

> but this would require people to be able to manage their own private keys

a few generations ago social networking would have seemed infeasible because it would require wide spread literacy (along with many other reasons of course). widespread private key management doesn't seem that infeasible to me.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#117

Post by irthomasthomas »

mrtksn wrote: post #115
kristiandupont wrote: post #101

I can imagine a future where it's quite easy to fake real people. By gathering information, pictures and maybe even videos of a person, you might be able to deep fake a credible video of them. It might know their address and use pictures and Streetview material to have them "record" a video from their house. That means that a clever script would be able to figure out who a persons real friends are (that info is easil…

Certainly this is within the reach of the tech. What I'm afraid of is, this will dull people because the computer models would not have the fidelity of a real person(simply because only small portion of humans thoughts are expressed and even less recorder). Many people will prefer to interact with this shallow model of humans instead of real ones in similar manner of porn replacing real sex. It will create armies of…

The precession of simulacra. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#118

Post by jnwatson »

ben_w wrote: post #55
arcturus17 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The volumes of email spam are absolutely staggering, but its detection and filtering, with minuscule amounts of false negatives, are nearly perfect. It has been largely a solved problem for a decade to which we give very little credit. Me personally, it blows my mind out of the water every time I'm reminded of it.

Spam filters are indeed amazing, but I do get a non-trivial number of false positives these days. Spam is a moving target.

And the movement of spam just accelerated with ChatGPT.

Re: AI: Markets for Lemons, and the Great Logging Off

#120

Post by m_fayer »

donkeyd wrote: post #108
angarg12 wrote: post #25

Regarding the Third point, I can already see part of this movement. I've become disenchanted with the quality of the discourse. Specifically as I've entered a more senior stage of my career, I'm looking to mingle with like-minded folks in similar situations. Thing is, these folks don't usually lurk online, and even if they do, their voices get overwhelmed by the flood of (mostly low quality) content. I'd be happy to…

> their voices get overwhelmed by the flood of (mostly low quality) content I have the same issue. People place so much trust in their preferred sources of information and don't question anything they read. Because of this I have a hard time discussing anything beyond the most basic things with many friends, since they just repeat talking points and opinions of others. It's so enlightening when I do find someone who'…

I don’t think the root cause here is excessive trust in preferred sources. What’s actually at play here, is most peoples weakness at perspective taking. Truly understanding a given issue requires the ability to have your own perspective and to give equal credence to the other plausible perspectives. Many people do not pause to consider alien perspectives, and are disoriented when confronted with them. Therefore, they don’t seek out alien perspectives in order to avoid the sense of disorientation that would result, and that’s why they stick to media that share their perspective, and even punish said media when it offers alternative perspectives.

People have always been this way, but the Internet and social media are really not helping.

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