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US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

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Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#261
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds to me like a highly ineffective secret society, given the slow but steady decline of Anglo-American hegemony since the cold war.

Ineffective is an ungenerous appraisal, when we consider what the world looked like mid 19th century when this project got started, and how it does now. They were quite effective up to the demise of USSR. The entire world speaks English. William Engdahl's book Gods of Money [ch. 18 - Theft of a Nation] addresses the period you mention and what was happening. There was also an ideological shift in this period, since a…

In the mid 19th century, the British Empire was peaking as the largest empire in history. It was a long road to get to that point, and this secret society was created as the Empire was just beginning its decline.

The 20th century saw the rise of American military, economic, and cultural imperialism, which carried Anglo-American culture further as the British Empire declined relatively.

Sure, I'll concede that there are shady people in government trying to do things that are broadly objectionable and sometimes illegal, but to think this means certain individuals or secret societies have a "stranglehold" on global politics or economics goes much too far. There are far too many factors at play for a small group of people to wield the level of outsize power necessary to guide these processes. It's really a very large and ever-changing group of people who "control everything", and this happens in a highly uncoordinated manner.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#262
post #88
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean USA won't misuse this data?

We have had the Five Eyes and ECHELON for decades. Since before the Snowden revelations. How is this different? They don’t spy on their own citizens but they exchange info with the other spy agencies, so…

> They don’t spy on their own citizens

Correct, that would be illegal.

When NSA need to spy on an american, they ask GCHQ to do it for them and buy the data. Or buy it off a private company.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would we have to give two damns about American demands, I don't see that having any chance.

Uhmm, you may want to update your knowledge on the history of the 1945-2022 period tldr: USA is the current world empire; EU are their vassals Homework: (1) find how many European military bases there are on US soil; (2) find how many US military bases there are on European soil;

The USA is rapidly losing that status, though. Its European bases were a holdover from the Second World War, extended by the Cold War - their presence should not be seen as any indication of its current political status.

In the last 20 years the USA has involved its allies into multiple pointless unwinnable wars. Human rights in the USA have been significantly eroded, and many values essential to modern society are currently being undermined. Additionally, Trump's presidency has done significant damage to a large number of diplomatic relations and resulted not only in widespread doubt about its democratic process, but a genuine coup attempt.

Meanwhile, during the same 20 years the European Union and China have risen in power significantly - and both are making significant effort to curtail the power the USA has over them. Those military bases exist because the USA is still somewhat of an ally and the EU has real threats right on its border - as long as the USA is not actively hostile towards the EU, having direct access to the firepower of a gun-drunk nation is quite convenient.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very correct. However, I would amend your solution: the solution is modern encryption and open source. These two in conjunction allow you to verify trust. ToS is like HR: they both exist to protect only the company.

> ToS is like HR: they both exist to protect only the company. This is, of course, not true about HR and yet another thing people just say to sound cool. HR’s job is to hire people and run your payroll and benefits. If you have a health insurance question are you going to avoid them because they’re going to fire you as soon as you look at them? No. If you’re a first level manager molesting a distinguished engineer ar…

Well, HR as any other power structure is to protect status quo.

They will sack anyone if they see it necessary to protect the status quo.

But more importantly, HR will create mindless policies to show you how powerful they are. As border force forcing your sneakers of.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#265
post #83

Reading through the slides, it appears that what has been discussed is sharing signature and fingerprints for travel into the USA. There is a lot of weasel words, but it's probably worth nothing that the USA currently collects this information for foreign nationals coming into the USA (as the EU does for Americans traveling into the EU). This is being done in the context of a DB query as part of the e VISA applicatio…

You mean USA won't misuse this data?

What difference does it make? They already lost it and it fell into the hands of not-so-nice people like the Taliban.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#266

Whether it's good local privacy laws in your country or a good privacy-respecting TOS from a company, both are basically worthless when a bigger entity comes barging into the picture. So your government collects biometric data but passes laws promising not to misuse it... you may very well find that those promises are worth less than dirt when a country with leverage over your own starts making demands that your gove…

> Or you give lots of your personal data to a software company that promises privacy in their TOS. Great.. until that company gets bought out by the likes of Google or Facebook, then those promises evaporate and good luck doing anything about it.

Sounds like the contract binds me, but does not protect me. It protects the company, but does not bind it.

> Conservatism Consists of Exactly One Proposition, to Wit: There Must Be In-Groups Whom the Law Protects but Does Not Bind, Alongside Out-Groups Whom the Law Binds but Does Not Protect.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#267
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have had the Five Eyes and ECHELON for decades. Since before the Snowden revelations. How is this different? They don’t spy on their own citizens but they exchange info with the other spy agencies, so…

>We have had the Five Eyes and ECHELON for decades. Since before the Snowden revelations. How is this different? Because the EU is not part of either?

Well one of the countries in the Five Eyes (UK) used to be a part of the EU, until fairly recently.

Note for those in the thread who haven't heard of ECHELON until now (just like me) - it is the exact same list of countries as for the Five Eyes.

> [...] Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States, also known as the Five Eyes. [0]

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would we have to give two damns about American demands, I don't see that having any chance.

Because sovereignty ends at borders. Europeans want to vacation in the US. The US demands biometric authentication upon crossing the border. So you either give them that data or the US stops letting Europeans in. And I doubt Europe is going to be any better at not demanding biometric data than the US is, because Europe has the same underlying incentives to do so (i.e. a restrictive immigration system, a large portion…

We already have biometric passports in the EU. Why the need to collect biometric data when I have it on me and in my passport as well? This is worse than PII, it should be covered by data protection laws like the GDPR.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the US has army bases all in and around Europe, more than any European country, I bet the US wouldn't comply. It's rarely talked about, but you gotta imagine, the fact the US controls most of the land and sea is a big factor in how diplomatic issues are resolved. I don't think this is a great thing, btw.

You think that the US could play the army card against countries (allies) with troops in when the most spectacular failures of armed conflicts after WWII belong to the US (not least because how the US population relate to conflicts abroad, here including WWII as well)? Just to forget about the economic ties for a moment. We are talking about a sub-set of security instruments and preventions, one of the many available…

I don’t think they’d ever play it, directly. I imagine it’s more like the tip of the iceberg in terms of regional influence the US has.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would we have to give two damns about American demands, I don't see that having any chance.

Because sovereignty ends at borders. Europeans want to vacation in the US. The US demands biometric authentication upon crossing the border. So you either give them that data or the US stops letting Europeans in. And I doubt Europe is going to be any better at not demanding biometric data than the US is, because Europe has the same underlying incentives to do so (i.e. a restrictive immigration system, a large portion…

I a glass is always nearly empty kind of guy.

Have no plans to visit the US still expect my government would fold like napkin if US county police faxed over a request.

The US tapped even NATO ally governments if they want fingerprints they'll get them.

At any rate don't you have to sign, fingerprint and stand infront of a camera to pass most countries passport control?

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