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The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

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Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#281

Post by Renaud »

xyst wrote: post #207

Yet another reason why EVs won’t save us from the inefficiencies of car centric transportation. Americans, can we stop this failed experiment and let’s (re)build our cities with public transportation and alternative forms of transportation (ie, biking, walking, micro-mobility). Return the spaces occupied by parking lots, parking garages and use that space to house people. End these implied subsidies on “car housing”.…

I don’t understand what EVs have to do with the need for better public transports and better alternatives.

Maybe I’m missing something but that was never my understanding for the need for EVs to replace ICE, a need based in lowering reliance on fossil fuel and decreasing air pollution.

These are still required, whatever urban policy we end up with.

I see the urgent need for improved public transports to be paramount in these goals too, so both EV to replace the billions of ICE cars and better urban transportation alternatives are needed.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#282

Post by EdwardDiego »

rtkwe wrote: post #280
EdwardDiego wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, do Americans use clotheslines? Our dryer is only really used for towels/sheets in wet weather. The rotary clothesline [0] was standard in Australia and New Zealand for decades, although with the move to smaller sections, people tend to install compact linear lines instead. [0]: https://99percentinvisible.org/article/hills-hoist-iconic-ro...

Generally no. Line drying has a connotation of poverty in the US and many cities have ordinances like this that make it tough to do. Also houses being generally larger and detached in the US we have an easier time installing them compared to row houses in Europe. They're also just built more recently so they have accommodations for them built in already. "No person shall place or allow to remain exposed to the elemen…

Oh wow. I did wonder why dryers were so frequently used in the US. Don't you have to worry about it shrinking clothing though?

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#283

Post by xyzelement »

ffssffss wrote: post #279
xyzelement wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: moved to the burbs after 40 years of city life (Europe and NYC) and I absolutely love it. Cars work absolutely great and with the decreased need to be physically in the office, suburban life is better and more convenient than ever. I feel like every post that shits on the suburbs should include how many kids do you have, for transparency. No family or kids, of course the city is better for you .

I think you're missing the bigger problem here - climate change. We cannot drive in ICE cars forever if we want our environment to remain livable. Your car-based lifestyle might be fine for you, right now, but it's still unsustainable and contributing to a worse world for your kids and their kids. If EVs aren't going to to be a drop in solution, then we really do need to talk about reorganizing society away from cars…

I think I am less stressed about this than you are. I remember someone ranting at me in the 90s about peak oil and how our kids will live in the stone ages because we'll run out (their thesis of course was that ppl shouldn't have kids)

Science evolves as does technology, and inevitably both factors will change over the coming decades. To base your life around the worst case predictions of models (where the disaster moment keeps pushing back as time progresses) is not logical.

And then specifically. I work from home as does my wife. Most of my driving (in a hybrid btw) is 2 miles to drop our kid at school or go to the grocery store. Really hard to connect this lifestyle to dooming the plannet honestly.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#284

Post by ffssffss »

xyzelement wrote: post #283
ffssffss wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the bigger problem here - climate change. We cannot drive in ICE cars forever if we want our environment to remain livable. Your car-based lifestyle might be fine for you, right now, but it's still unsustainable and contributing to a worse world for your kids and their kids. If EVs aren't going to to be a drop in solution, then we really do need to talk about reorganizing society away from cars…

I think I am less stressed about this than you are. I remember someone ranting at me in the 90s about peak oil and how our kids will live in the stone ages because we'll run out (their thesis of course was that ppl shouldn't have kids) Science evolves as does technology, and inevitably both factors will change over the coming decades. To base your life around the worst case predictions of models (where the disaster m…

Ah, if you don't think climate change is going to be an issue, then I think I see where you're coming from. I hope you're right.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#285

Post by rtkwe »

krater23 wrote: post #275
rtkwe wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the difference that the dryer connections are usually installed when the house is built so there's easy access to run the wires to and from the breaker box. Installing them afterwards is more expensive and complicated to do because of the limited access. It's also not something you can expect to find anywhere other than at another EV owner's place. Admittedly over time that will become less of an issue but for n…

I'm an opponent of EV, but bring a cable from power input to garage is really not a big problem. Done that for many things over the last 20 years, including network cabling for internet access.

I'm just saying it's more work not that it's impossible work. Also a high current 240V cable is way more trouble than a CAT cable.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#286

Post by tjr225 »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #252
devb wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not having a 220v outlet in the garage will be like not having a microwave What about the millions of people who live in apartments and rowhouses?

Well, if they're smart, they've built their cities in such a way that cars are only something you hire for your vacation, rest of the time, a bike and/or a train pass is sufficient.

[dead]

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#287

Post by [deleted] »

joshuanapoli wrote: post #174
linsomniac wrote: post #9

Range impact of cold weather does seem to be a real thing, I can't speak personally because I own a Tesla which has some of the lowest impact. Another thing to keep in mind is: Charging speeds of cold temps. While the Tesla seems to do great at range, charging at cold temps is not great. When it's below freezing, home charging can be tough to impossible. A few days ago (when it was merely "cold", before the huge cold…

It’s strange that people’s experiences are so varied with EVs in cold weather. Here it’s 14F right now and my Model Y is charging at 30 mph (versus 32 mph in warm weather). Driving 120 miles this morning at 11F used maybe 10% more energy than normal. The doors, though, we’re quite sticky and frustrating to open.

[deleted]

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#288

Post by stephencanon »

pard68 wrote: post #172
jws wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken by someone who's never had their diesel fuel begin gelling in the fuel line at night on a frigid, remote highway and trying to figure out if you can make it to somewhere with heat before you stop completely. Then finding out they only have gasoline, so you try to figure out how much gas you can add to the diesel tank to keep it from gelling but still run adequately to move you along. Sometimes we forget that w…

Is that something that actually happens to diesel engines? I have multiple diesels and while they are difficult to _start_ in the cold they are fine once started for me. But yes, cold enough and combustion engines are hard to get going. My Subaru hates cold days, it'll go a few seconds on a below freezing day before ignition. My diesel tractors actually have electric plugs to keep the manifold hot.

Not anymore, at least in milder “extreme cold”. We live in northern New Hampshire, and never have an issue with our 328d wagon parked outside in -25F. It has a heater for the fuel line, and they add anti-gelling agents to diesel in winter.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#289

Post by estebank »

alphabettsy wrote: post #113
jws wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken by someone who's never had their diesel fuel begin gelling in the fuel line at night on a frigid, remote highway and trying to figure out if you can make it to somewhere with heat before you stop completely. Then finding out they only have gasoline, so you try to figure out how much gas you can add to the diesel tank to keep it from gelling but still run adequately to move you along. Sometimes we forget that w…

Diesel passenger cars aren’t popular in the US, certainly not in the segments that compete with EVs. You’re right but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s not the right time for people in certain areas or with certain lifestyles to have an EV.

Why is it that when it comes to transportation the discussion is always talking past each other?

"Trucks don't belong in cities for personal transportation."

"I need a truck for my farm."

"Vehicle transportation is a huge chunk of global warming contributing fuel consumption, so we need to reduce car usage in cities towards more and better public transport, and EVs when possible."

"I don't live in a city and the bus only comes twice every day and I have to drive 30 miles to work."

These are not mutually exclusive statements!

EVs aren't great for long distance transportation. Particularly ill suited for long haul trucking in winter. But that's not what most people do. Most vehicles drive short distances in fair weather. Many American families have more than one car. That second car doesn't need to be able to drive cross country in the winter. I don't complain that my sneakers are not snow shoes so they are useless to me and anyone else. No one is talking about making ICE vehicles illegal. At most there might be restrictions on usage in cities, no different to how some european cities keep private cars outside of historical city centers.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#290

Post by Underphil »

Renaud wrote: post #281
xyst wrote: post #207

Yet another reason why EVs won’t save us from the inefficiencies of car centric transportation. Americans, can we stop this failed experiment and let’s (re)build our cities with public transportation and alternative forms of transportation (ie, biking, walking, micro-mobility). Return the spaces occupied by parking lots, parking garages and use that space to house people. End these implied subsidies on “car housing”.…

I don’t understand what EVs have to do with the need for better public transports and better alternatives. Maybe I’m missing something but that was never my understanding for the need for EVs to replace ICE, a need based in lowering reliance on fossil fuel and decreasing air pollution. These are still required, whatever urban policy we end up with. I see the urgent need for improved public transports to be paramount…

I think the poster is alluding to what appears (anecdotally) to be a mindset of "once EVs are ubiquitous we're good forever".

Whereas it can also be seen as kicking the can down the road.

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