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The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

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Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#241

Post by Auracle »

8note wrote: post #215
GalenErso wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, with an ICE car, you don't need to worry about having a garage, nevermind a heated one; the right charger, warming a pack, losing fuel overnight, or taking three hours to fully charge. I can pull up to any gas station and fill my tank in 2 minutes. And my gas isn't magically evaporating if it's a little chilly. The 30 different requirements for EVs to work in cold weather are too complex and prohibitively…

You sound like somebody who's never had to plug your car in at night to make sure that it'll start in the morning. ICE cars still need electricity to start

Eh. I’ve found with modern cars they can still start at -30f just fine. At least, mine can.

My first car? I had to constantly give it gas for a while even once it started. People gave me funny looks when I was essentially revving my engine like I was showing off in my ‘88 Grand Marquis at stop signs in the year 2005.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#243

Post by maxerickson »

sokoloff wrote: post #184
Gordonjcp wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cold air is denser. Pushing it out of the way saps more energy and drops the effective work done. That makes absolutely no difference at all.

> That makes absolutely no difference at all. That would be very surprising if it were true, given the very large effect density altitude has on airplane performance (engine and wing).

It's gonna make some difference, but air resistance goes with square of speed and the change in density due to temperature isn't that large.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#244

Post by kergonath »

john-radio wrote: post #237
pandaman wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US "220V" refers to a high current outlet normally, in a country where household outlets are 220V, you still need a high current outlet and, for safety reasons, most outlets are not high current, just like in the US.

Wait, this is terribly confusing. Why would "220 volts" not refer to a completely objective measurement of current?

The Volt is a unit of electric potential. The SI unit of current is the Ampere. You can have very large potential differences (in V) with very small current (in A). The unit of power is the Watt, and 1 W = 1 A*1 V.

So, a given power can be obtained using any voltage, with the proper current. In practice, high currents are unsafe so we tend to avoid that in unprotected sockets. Different norms correspond to different tradeoffs.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#245

Post by EdwardDiego »

Scoundreller wrote: post #159
vosper wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no particular reason that a dryer and washer have to go in the same room. I have my dryer in my garage, because it’s a hybrid heat-pump model that is very efficient when the garage is warmed up from the afternoon sun, but can provide its own heat in winter. It captures all the water in a tank, so doesn’t put any moisture into the room. Modern dryers are really quite neat :)

> There’s no particular reason that a dryer and washer have to go in the same room Uhhhh convenience? People prefer them right next to each other so that clothes washing isn’t a long journey. At least that’s why the plumbing and electrical/gas connections are usually built close to each other.

Serious question, do Americans use clotheslines? Our dryer is only really used for towels/sheets in wet weather.

The rotary clothesline [0] was standard in Australia and New Zealand for decades, although with the move to smaller sections, people tend to install compact linear lines instead.

[0]: https://99percentinvisible.org/article/hills-hoist-iconic-ro...

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#246

Post by sgerenser »

8note wrote: post #220
pandaman wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US "220V" refers to a high current outlet normally, in a country where household outlets are 220V, you still need a high current outlet and, for safety reasons, most outlets are not high current, just like in the US.

A 220V outlet will always give you more power for the same current limit than a 120V

True, but in the US most 240v outlets are 30-50A, whereas in countries that use 240v for their normal household outlets, the current limit is usually 13-15A. Still double the wattage of a typical US outlet but not up to the standards of a “Level 2” charger.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#247

Post by ducttapecrown »

acdha wrote: post #238
josephcsible wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like living in suburbs better than cities, so I choose to live in a suburb, but I don't try to keep other people from being able to live in cities. You like cities and not suburbs. Why can't you be content to just live in a city yourself? Why do you need to make it your mission to destroy my neighborhood?

Are they trying to destroy your neighborhood or simply stop subsidizing it? Suburban living costs more and a lot of those costs are paid by the cities they’re near but don’t contribute much to economically.

I'm an urban living fan, but do you have a source for that claim? It would be a wonderful argument to make!

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#248

Post by Robotbeat »

rightbyte wrote: post #22
linsomniac wrote: post #9

Range impact of cold weather does seem to be a real thing, I can't speak personally because I own a Tesla which has some of the lowest impact. Another thing to keep in mind is: Charging speeds of cold temps. While the Tesla seems to do great at range, charging at cold temps is not great. When it's below freezing, home charging can be tough to impossible. A few days ago (when it was merely "cold", before the huge cold…

> I own a Tesla which has some of the lowest impact. I have a suspicioun those cars that seem to have no impact on range due to temperature just increase the deepth of discharge in colder weather. I.e. Tesla and Jaguar.

No, it’s because they tend to pull energy from the charger to warm the battery. They’re also often parked indoors. And if you buy one in a cold climate, you’ll often be getting a winter package which includes a heat pump, reducing energy needed for heating the cabin and the battery by a factor of 2 to 3.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#250

Post by EdwardDiego »

GalenErso wrote: post #32
brianglick wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wouldn't really need a heated garage (at home, anyway) if you had a 220 volt charger. That should be able to overcome any charging challenges in extreme cold, anyway. Relatively easy to get that into your garage. Also - if you arrive at your friend's place in the winter and park overnight, you won't lose a ton overnight if the car's just parked there.

Meanwhile, with an ICE car, you don't need to worry about having a garage, nevermind a heated one; the right charger, warming a pack, losing fuel overnight, or taking three hours to fully charge. I can pull up to any gas station and fill my tank in 2 minutes. And my gas isn't magically evaporating if it's a little chilly. The 30 different requirements for EVs to work in cold weather are too complex and prohibitively…

> And my gas isn't magically evaporating if it's a little chilly.

Although, if you're filling when it's hot, you're getting slightly less gas than when it's cold.

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