What most of you still supporting "vaccine" failed to understand is that a jab cannot be developed in less that 1 year. It was a huge experiment and many people paid with either their lives or have suffered severe damage. All for a virus that kill less that common influenza, which a much more dangerous corona virus than covid.
Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination
531–540 of 662 posts
Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination
#532Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The problem is the massive leaps of logic being made by people who have (quite wrongly, based on available evidence) become convinced that the vaccines are a greater threat to healthy people than the virus is. In some cases, it may well be true that the vaccine is a greater risk than the virus. For example, in Australia, the official recommendation is that healthy people under 30 not receive a fourth dose of COVID-…
> For example, in Australia, the official recommendation is that healthy people under 30 not receive a fourth dose of COVID-19 vaccine (...) It should be stressed that this guidance explicitly refers to a fourth dose of a vaccine. I feel it's disingenuous to use this example to try to refute the OP when the problem lies in people taking massive leaps of logic such as going from "it's ok to take 3 doses of a vaccine b…
> "it's ok to take 3 doses of a vaccine but the benefits of a fourth might not justify it"
That's not what the Australian health authorities are saying. They aren't just saying that "the benefits of a fourth might not justify it", they are saying "(for healthy young people) the health risks of the fourth dose likely outweigh the health benefits"–your rephrasing ignores that safety risk aspect.
In my mind, there are three different positions here:
(1) "Vaccines are perfectly safe, and anyone who even mentions death or serious injury caused by vaccination is just being an alarmist"
(2) "Everyone who took the deadly COVID vax is about to drop dead! Just watch!"
(3) "Vaccines have real safety risks, some people have died from vaccination, and it is certain that more people will die from them in the future. However, sometimes, the risk of death or disability from the disease the vaccine is intended to prevent, is going to be significantly higher than the risk of death or disability from the vaccine. Whether or not that is true in any particular case is going to vary depending on the particular disease, its current prevalence, availability of treatments for it, etc; whether the disease or the vaccine poses the greater health risk will vary across time, place, disease and vaccine; our estimates of those respective risks are always going to be imperfect, evolving, and open to informed disagreement; generally we should trust the public health authorities to make that judgement for us, but they are not infallible, and it can be legitimate to doubt or question their judgement in any particular case"
I see myself as defending (3), whereas what some other people in this conversation are saying seems to me to be closer to (1), and also encouraging the fallacious conflation of (3) with (2).
Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination
#533What most of you still supporting "vaccine" failed to understand is that a jab cannot be developed in less that 1 year. It was a huge experiment and many people paid with either their lives or have suffered severe damage. All for a virus that kill less that common influenza, which a much more dangerous corona virus than covid.
Multiple statements you made are just wrong.
There is no law of nature that says a vaccine cannot be made in a year, in the same way that there is no law of nature forbidding any of our technological artifacts that we use every day.
Influenza is not a coronavirus.
Influenza does not kill anywhere near as much as the original SARS-CoV-2 strain.
And mortality was not the only concern regarding the pandemic.
Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination
#534I am vaccinated but I am upvoting this post because I believe that it is important to investigate these cases to determine how to improve future vaccines. I really don't like how this topic seems to be treated like some fringe conspiracy theory. Maybe it is just a conspiracy, but we won't ever know until sufficient research has been done. Currently, I still believe that people should vaccinate, even if vaccines cause…
The association between heart problems and mRNA vaccines is a settled matter - outside social media at least. The Paul Ehrlich institute which is monitoring vaccine side-effects has a nice detailed report on vaccine safety with details on heart problems and all sorts of other things. Most affected are men and male teens between 12-17 and Moderna’s causing more problems than Biontech. This was the main reason why the…
I missed “settled matter” in the scientific method handbook. The reality is that this experiment is still unfolding and will continue for the rest of my life. It will take decades of research and observations to have real answers.
Settled matter? No.
Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination
#535Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because the risk of e.g. dying of myocarditis from the virus still exceeds the risk of dying of myocarditis from the vaccine. Particularly with the mRNA vaccines there isn't much in the vaccine that isn't in the virus already. There has to be a name for this fallacy. It is like we're living in the dark ages where contracting covid is just "God's will" and it doesn't count in risk assessments, while no matter how smal…
> Because the risk of e.g. dying of myocarditis from the virus still exceeds the risk of dying of myocarditis from the vaccine. There's several studies that have shown myocarditis from the virus is indistinguishable from previously-measured myocarditis in the population in general - that the virus isn't actually causing any. At least one of them included vaccine-caused myocarditis and showed it's several times higher…
> People who were infected with COVID-19 before receiving any doses of the COVID-19 vaccines were 11 times more at risk for developing myocarditis during days 1-28 after a COVID-19 positive test.
https://newsroom.heart.org/news/myocarditis-risk-significant...
Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination
#536Earlier quoted context omitted.
> that military people (or right-wing media) began to turn this into an issue that people cared about Historically, the majority of opposition to vaccines has been "left-wing" rather than "right-wing". It was only really with COVID that it suddenly picked up on the right as well. I've had some rather frustrating conversations online with people (mostly Americans it seems) who are utterly convinced that it is fundamen…
I am not aware of what was the case historically (roughly before I was vaccinated as a kid), but I will point out the switch happened before covid- around 2015- and was fairly partisan. Note that extreme idealogies sort of "wrap around" the political spectrum- another area with extremely low vax rates for some time was Marin, which is highly educated and liberal.
Yeah, I remember an episode of The Simpsons circa 2016 (so they probably wrote it in 2015) where they call it out as a "liberal" thing.
Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination
#537Earlier quoted context omitted.
My entire issue actually has nothing to do with health, and everything to do with authoritarianism. Before the vaccine mandates and coercion I had a seething hatred of corrupt and incompetent little tyrants in positions of power, afterward was nothing new, it just confirmed what I already knew about them. I don't care if I would have a statistically better outcome with the vaccine, I took great pleasure in standing u…
“I drove my car off a cliff to really stick it to society” What’s warmed my heart is most Covid deaths being from the unvaccinated. Clearing out the weak and stupid even sooner than natural causes.
> “I drove my car off a cliff to really stick it to society”
Strawman.
> What’s warmed my heart is most Covid deaths being from the unvaccinated. Clearing out the weak and stupid even sooner than natural causes.
And the wailing and gnashing of teeth continues. You sound like a nasty, sick person xcrunner529. They don't make a jab for that.
EDIT: I will give you the benefit of the doubt though, in the spirit of this website. Perhaps you are not naturally like this, but that you have just been radicalized by hateful rhetoric from violent extremists that I see going around all too often these days. And you're lashing out here because you're being precious about the fact you've been lead to believe incorrect things about the vaccines and virus so many times. If that is the case I wish you the best in your recovery.
Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination
#538Earlier quoted context omitted.
> While I think it is certainly fair to talk about the policies of other countries, I don't think just because another country has a different policy necessarily dictates that policy is better or worse. Sure. But if a person is aware that other countries have different policies, that gives them a legitimate reason to question whether the policy of their own country is correct. If a person looks into the matter, and d…
I trust that when I drive over a bridge it won't collapse. But I cannot say I know that the bridge won't collapse. Knowledge is a true and justified belief. But trust is not a justification - quite the opposite. If you had a justification, you wouldn't need trust. Trust whomever you want, on whatever basis you want, but that's fundamentally not reason or rationality, it's just an argument from authority [1]. No state…
Isn't your citing Wikipedia, in itself, an appeal to authority? Why should we accept Wikipedia as an authority on which arguments are fallacious and which are rational?
(Also, that wiki page mentions that many authors don't see it as a fallacy.)
Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination
#539Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem here isn't the study---of course we should study possible vaccine side effects. The problem is the massive leaps of logic being made by people who have (quite wrongly, based on available evidence) become convinced that the vaccines are a greater threat to healthy people than the virus is. As unlikely as it is that an otherwise healthy young person will die from covid, it is even less likely that they'll d…
> we have millions of both covid cases and vaccinations to back that up. This study looked at 25 cases of unexpected death in Fair enough, but where is that data? Why a study of only 25 if there are millions? It's not a conspiracy theory to say such things simply don't add up. The largest drug test in history and no encompassing and definitive follow up? Why? Not trolling. Serious question (i.e., why).
Without spending much time you could determine why by reading the paper. Most likely it is because they could only find 25 out of millions.