Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

link.springer.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 662 posts

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#141

Post by librish »

adamiscool8 wrote: post #128
librish wrote: post #39

A question for vaccine skeptics: For it to be a reasonable choice to not want to take the vaccine wouldn't you need to balance the risk of death / complications from the vaccine against the risk of death / complications from covid multiplied by the risk of getting covid? There seems to be a lot of "aha I knew it" whenever any side-effect of the vaccine is found, but aren't the side-effects of covid well established,…

According to my governments stats, the COVID-19 hospitalization rate for my age + health cohort, when modestly adjusted for their known undercount of cases, is less than 1 in 3000. Also by their stats, more than 1 in 2000 4-dose mRNA vaccine series have resulted in a serious adverse event reported by a health professional. Then, factoring in the additional risk of acquiescing bodily autonomy to an opaque bureaucracy…

What constitutes a 'serious adverse event' in this data? Do you mind linking the source? Having a 1 in 3000 chance of getting so sick you need to be hospitalized seems quite bad.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#142

Post by Eisenstein »

hammock wrote: post #96
Eisenstein wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We require young people to get vaccinated as a rule in order to obtain education. Every medical intervention involves risks. So does taking a shower or taking the bus to school. We all have to take risks and some of them are mandated for the good of society. There were very good indications that the vaccine would prevent spread. Public policy decisions which cost lives are not unusual and although tragic, are often n…

>There were very good indications that the vaccine would prevent spread. Now that we know that to be not true, do you support removing the covid jab from the schedule required in school?

I do not have children so I have no stake in the matter and I do not feel that Id am sufficiently informed about the particulars at this point to have an opinion.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#143

Post by gfodor »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #132
gfodor wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data on myocarditis has been clear and significant for quite some time: 1 in approximately 5000 young men under 40 by shot two. Without a full understanding of the underlying mechanism of action, we can’t be that confident of number of deaths due to the vaccine, but given the size of the deployed population and the recurrent nature of the shots it’s not unreasonable to think we killed tens of thousands of people…

> it’s not unreasonable to think we killed tens of thousands of people with them. It's not unreasonable to think otherwise as well given that it was a rare occurrence and typically mild. Also, there were no young men in this study. "Median age at death was 58 years (range 46–75 years)", so you're drawing your own conclusions without data here.

I’m not drawing conclusions - you invented that claim. The data I’m referring to is available in several other studies, with regards to estimated myocarditis rates in young men. But if you agree with me that it’s not unreasonable to think that is the scope of fatalities, I would urge you to integrate that new prior into things like the ethics of mandating this drug for college.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#144

Post by vannevar »

nulld3v wrote: post #67

I am vaccinated but I am upvoting this post because I believe that it is important to investigate these cases to determine how to improve future vaccines. I really don't like how this topic seems to be treated like some fringe conspiracy theory. Maybe it is just a conspiracy, but we won't ever know until sufficient research has been done. Currently, I still believe that people should vaccinate, even if vaccines cause…

The problem here isn't the study---of course we should study possible vaccine side effects. The problem is the massive leaps of logic being made by people who have (quite wrongly, based on available evidence) become convinced that the vaccines are a greater threat to healthy people than the virus is. As unlikely as it is that an otherwise healthy young person will die from covid, it is even less likely that they'll die from a vaccine side effect. That's just a statistical fact at this point, we have millions of both covid cases and vaccinations to back that up.

This study looked at 25 cases of unexpected death in people aged 46-75 and found 5 cases of myocarditis. Without any control group to compare to, there is literally nothing that can be drawn from this study about the risk presented by the vaccine, and the authors admit as much:

"The nature of our autopsy study necessitates that the data are descriptive in quality and does not allow any epidemiological conclusions in terms of incidence or risk estimation."

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#145

Post by ROTMetro »

kyleyeats wrote: post #90
kaio wrote: post #42

Key takeaway: >>The reported incidence of (epi-)myocarditis after vaccination is low and the risks of hospitalization and death associated with COVID-19 are stated to be greater than the recorded risk associated with COVID-19 vaccination [29].

It's actually a non sequitur because you can still get Covid after getting the vaccine. It's not an either/or at all, and in fact most people who got the vaccine did get Covid.

But had lower incidence of hospitalization.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#146

Post by athenot »

What this article does describe, is how the fatal "adverse events" take place. It's useful to deepen our understanding of the mechanisms of action for undesireable outcomes. And of course it's one piece of a much larger puzzle.

Some seem to be interpreting this article as a confirmation that vaccines are inherently not safe. The thing is, every therapy, whether preventative or curative carries an element of risk. This paper is not weighing on the relative safety of the immunization.

To someone uncomfortable with the vaccine, this is of course unsettling to discuss, as it reinforces a fear. It's akin to discussing how exactly people's organs got smashed when they got killed by getting ran over by a bus. People who distrust busses will further cement their fears about them.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#147

Post by oneoff786 »

TheCrownedFox wrote: post #95
curiousgal wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> approved religious exemption The wording is a telltale sign that the exemption is pure BS.

You might not like that the exemption exists, but it's legal in the USA. Would you rather that religious beliefs were not respected by the government?

I would prefer the government was completely indifferent to religious beliefs. Because any belief can be construed as religious if you’re willing to take the position that religion is stupid and you don’t care about optics.

So yeah, I would prefer beliefs not garner you special privileges

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#148

Post by adamiscool8 »

Eisenstein wrote: post #54
danhak wrote: post #8

We coerced young, low-risk people into receiving these treatments despite known side effects on pain of losing their education or employment or being able to enter privately-owned establishments (irrespective of the wishes of the owners of those privately-owned establishments). We justified it with the specious argument that they were putting other people at undue risk by remaining unvaccinated. We claimed that vacci…

We require young people to get vaccinated as a rule in order to obtain education. Every medical intervention involves risks. So does taking a shower or taking the bus to school. We all have to take risks and some of them are mandated for the good of society. There were very good indications that the vaccine would prevent spread. Public policy decisions which cost lives are not unusual and although tragic, are often n…

>We all have to take risks and some of them are mandated for the good of society.

What are some other risky and irreversible interventions mandated upon the individual for the good of society?

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#149

Post by jamespo »

hammock wrote: post #118
pianoben wrote: post #93

> Standardized autopsies were performed on 25 persons who had died unexpectedly and within 20 days after anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination. Sample size of 25 out of a population of... how many tens of millions of young (EDIT: not actually young) men? Seems quite small, and perhaps not sufficient to draw any conclusions. I wonder what the results will show... > myocarditis is another manifestation reported during SARS-CoV-2…

>the authors offer no real ideas about how the damage could have happened They do, though. In fact that's the entirely novel value that this study brings. It's in the title: "histopathological characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination." That's a lot of words that means "we can now tell you exactly what microscopic tissue looks like following lethal jab-associated myocarditis.” And the scientis…

You've paraphrased into "jab-associated" which is dishonest at best.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#150

Post by gwd »

danhak wrote: post #8

We coerced young, low-risk people into receiving these treatments despite known side effects on pain of losing their education or employment or being able to enter privately-owned establishments (irrespective of the wishes of the owners of those privately-owned establishments). We justified it with the specious argument that they were putting other people at undue risk by remaining unvaccinated. We claimed that vacci…

You know what also causes myocarditis? COVID-19 [1].

So the choices were:

1. Don't pressure young people to get vaccinated. Nearly everyone who's unvaccinated eventually catches COVID-19. Some of them would have severe reactions and die; or spend time in a hospital, taking up space and delaying care for others, causing those other people to die. Nearly all of them would pass COVID-19 on to other people, many of whom would be older and die. Some of them would develop myocarditis and die.

2. Pressure young people to be vaccinated for COVID-19. Some of them would develop myocarditis and die.

#2 is strictly better than #1.

Sometimes in life there are no good options; only not-so-great options and very bad options.

[1] https://www.beaumont.org/health-wellness/blogs/myocarditis-r...

Post reply on HN