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Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#421

Post by TacticalCoder »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #285
steveBK123 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely! Not to mention a fully specced out Tesla Model 3 is $80k and Model Y is now.. $90k, and the tax credits are basically gone! I remember getting a pretty well configured Model 3 for $50k after tax incentives in their first year of production. For ~$70k you used to be able to get a Model S, which now STARTS at $105k. Easily configurable into the $130-160k range now.. insane.

> For ~$70k you used to be able to get a Model S, which now STARTS at $105k. Easily configurable into the $130-160k range now.. insane. For a shit car with the interior fit and finish of a poverty-spec Skoda, and all the important controls replaced with a bloody great iPad that blinds you at night. Oh, and it's from an obscenely "techbro" company. Am I the only one not impressed in any sense by Teslas?

> Am I the only one not impressed in any sense by Teslas?

I am very impressed by their batteries and I like the look of the Model S but I'm utterly unimpressed by the build quality of the interior and the cheap materials used.

At that price I'd except to be entering a comfortable car using luxurious materials.

FWIW I tried the Porsche Taycan and the interior is leaps and bound ahead of the Teslas (but the batteries aren't up to par yet and the software ain't either I think).

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#422

Post by stonogo »

begemotz wrote: post #303
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> his consistent grey t-shirt and jeans I’m pretty sure they were talking about that consistency. The story that I have heard, is that Jobs wore the same thing, every day, so his mind wouldn’t be “bogged down,” with minutia, like what to wear. I think some folks also have superstitions about dress.

this story has been around for a long time, and attributed to a number of people. As a student, I came across it being said of Einstein.

It was also the explanation for the Incredible Hulk always wearing purple pants in the comics.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#423

Post by 082349872349872 »

themacguffinman wrote: post #380
bulbosaur123 wrote: post #28

The poorer you are, the more you are interested in appearing rich. Higher EV in that play allowing increased chances to mingle with rich class. The richer you are, the more you are interested in appearing humble. Higher EV in signalling "money speaks, wealth whispers" message and appearing "down-to-earth" to win people over. Very often it pays to do the opposite of what is expected from you.

If the actually rich people are dressing down-to-earth, why would you dress fancily to appear rich? Surely you want to also dress down-to-earth so you appear like the rich people do.

because you and the actually rich people are not appearing to the same audience.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#424

Post by whatshisface »

GuB-42 wrote: post #406
whatshisface wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take a step back from the signalling perspective and recognize that hobbies (expensive or not) are a lot more fun than watches, which provide almost nothing but status. The same goes for remodeling, which is an extended form of decoration and also a hobby for some people.

Unless watches are a hobby. I find mechanical watches to be fascinating. This is obsolete technology, and yet, innovation continues. This is precision engineering, but at least for the high end, mostly done by hand. A lovely anachronism, which is a fitting word for a timepiece. It is like real life steampunk. I fully understand the appeal beyond status signalling. How can geeks not be at least a little interested in…

Watchmaking and watch buying are different things.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#425

Post by throwaway821909 »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #399
borroka wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps dressing poorly (very common) and not being in shape (bimodal distribution, there are many in very good shape and many in very bad shape, few in between) started out as a counter-signal, but today it is just sloppiness, or convenience, like it is more convenient to order fast food instead of grilling chicken. I work in the tech industry, and although I don't usually wear a suit, I often show up in a spezzato,…

I've personally never understood the business world's obsession with suits. Like, what does a deal need to be signed in a suit? What does the suit contribute to the deal? If it's to convey "professionalism", surely a cheap $300 piece of attire shouldn't be a stronger signal than whatever due diligence the two parties have done already?

I think in the same way we have expensive cars or whatever to say "I have so much money I can afford to waste $x" we have suits to say "I'm so organised I can spare some effort dressing kind of impractically, just to look a bit better for you, my client"

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#426

Post by kyawzazaw »

bulbosaur123 wrote: post #28

The poorer you are, the more you are interested in appearing rich. Higher EV in that play allowing increased chances to mingle with rich class. The richer you are, the more you are interested in appearing humble. Higher EV in signalling "money speaks, wealth whispers" message and appearing "down-to-earth" to win people over. Very often it pays to do the opposite of what is expected from you.

> The richer you are, the more you are interested in appearing humble. Higher EV in signalling "money speaks, wealth whispers" message and appearing "down-to-earth" to win people over.

Is that really the case though? Because I see a lot of university buildings and foundations named after really wealthy people. That's hardly "whsipers".

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#427

Post by vineyardmike »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #274
steveBK123 wrote: post #47

"An example from Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland: If you’re a top executive, turning up to work on a bicycle is a high-status activity because it was a choice and not a necessity. But if you work at Pizza Hut, turning up on a bike means you can’t afford a car." This tidbit reminds me of a similar anecdote (that my experience aligns with) re: the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW i…

I think there's a bit of an idea now that you should be expressing yourself with your money, not expressing society's ideas. Around cars and watches, this creates a little bit of a "dead zone" for prestigious professionals. For example, if you aren't showing up in a $200k Maserati, your car had better be under $50k (maybe $70k with inflation). Only posers who aren't really into cars but want to show off their wealth…

> Clothing seems to be the same at many companies: you had better wear tailored suits and shirts or be less dressy than "business casual."

There’s a running joke in my circle about the “dad professional class”. People who are older (40-60s) and go to the office in a remote-work-accepting world mostly because they seem to want to leave their family at home. They all dress like shit in ill-fitting clothes, but because they’re older than the “office casual” dress code, they tend to dress in overly professional button downs and slacks. The business attire that look out of place in tech next to a 25yo in a tee shirt. They don’t seem to know people don’t always take them seriously, and think “they’re not here to [change the world/be the best/rise in the ranks/etc], they’re here to avoid their wife and collect a salary”.

TLDR: stop telling people you try to avoid your family, and start tailoring your clothes, it’s honestly not expensive.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#428

Post by g42gregory »

cracrecry wrote: post #120
steveBK123 wrote: post #47

"An example from Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland: If you’re a top executive, turning up to work on a bicycle is a high-status activity because it was a choice and not a necessity. But if you work at Pizza Hut, turning up on a bike means you can’t afford a car." This tidbit reminds me of a similar anecdote (that my experience aligns with) re: the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW i…

>the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW is frowned upon. There was a time, not that long time ago in which good clocks were expensive and expending 2ks on a good clock was similar to expending 2k on a laptop today, a functional, reasonable decision. My uncle earned a much more expensive Rolex than 2k in a Golf tournament and wearing it nobody believed it was genuine, even a watchmaker c…

Last time the lowest-end Rolex was $2k was probably 30 years ago. :-)

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#429

Post by Alex3917 »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #378
steveBK123 wrote: post #47

"An example from Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland: If you’re a top executive, turning up to work on a bicycle is a high-status activity because it was a choice and not a necessity. But if you work at Pizza Hut, turning up on a bike means you can’t afford a car." This tidbit reminds me of a similar anecdote (that my experience aligns with) re: the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW i…

> re: the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW is frowned upon. always has been moon meme. unless you're neveaux rich or stupid or both it is in your absolute interest not to show what you have. driving a Prius used to be that signal but today it has shifted. My direct boss was a Schenker heir (the freight forwarding company) and the only way he showed off is by living in a rental house (…

> driving a Prius used to be that signal but today it has shifted

The new 5th generation that just came out looks amazing, so it wouldn't surprise me if Priuses eventually become trendy again.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#430

Post by rayiner »

nradov wrote: post #94
steveBK123 wrote: post #47

"An example from Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland: If you’re a top executive, turning up to work on a bicycle is a high-status activity because it was a choice and not a necessity. But if you work at Pizza Hut, turning up on a bike means you can’t afford a car." This tidbit reminds me of a similar anecdote (that my experience aligns with) re: the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW i…

The Toyota Land Cruiser has been a popular car in certain upper-class circles. At $87k it's fairly expensive, but it doesn't look expensive.

And even one that's 6 years old with 100k miles is still over $50,000 lol.
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