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Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

robkhenderson.substack.com

271–280 of 651 posts

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your "for the record" doesn't work even for that. Failure does not offset success.

> Your "for the record" doesn't work even for that. Failure does not offset success. I'm afraid that I don't understand the comment. Sorry. I'm stupid that way.

In business, failure is the default outcome, not a negative. Someone who has failed 9 times and won big once is pretty much in the same place as someone who has tried once and succeeded once. Both are way ahead of someone who is 0-0.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#272

> In contrast, children will copy every single action, including the unnecessary ones. The example that immediately springs to mind, in the tech industry, is the "Steve Jobs Asshole" archetype. Steve Jobs was a notorious manager, in that he made heavy-duty demands, did not suffer fools, and was blunt to the point of abusive. But he was also able to filter for talent, cultivate it, and encourage excellence. He wasn't…

The Steve Jobs example I immediately think of when talking about imitating unnecessary behaviors are all the people who started dressing like Steve Jobs. Elizabeth Holmes and Mark Zuckerberg come to mind as people who did this in an obvious way. But the 'asshole boss' or authority figure archetype is an old one, from long before Steve Jobs, and it can be an effective motivational tool, although many of us, myself inc…

> the people who started dressing like Steve Jobs. Elizabeth Holmes and Mark Zuckerberg come to mind as people who did this in an obvious way.

Zuckerberg was never known for copying the look of Steve Jobs. I doubt you can find multiple photos from different dates that demonstrates the claim.

Zuck wore zip hoodies and flip flops; the version of Jobs that Zuckerberg would have been exposed to did not dress that way (Jobs might have worn flip flops to work in the 1970s, given the era). Zuck wore plain, grey-blue, short sleeve shirts; Jobs did not. There isn't much to Zuck's sense of style beyond that it's simplistic and very casual - which is from the era he grew up in and how his young peers around him dressed.

Holmes by contrast did attempt to directly mimic the look of Jobs.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#273
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a fake "Rolex" in Thailand, for $10. It actually didn't work very well. I guess there's a hierarchy even among the fake.

I bought a $400 fake rolex. Aside from the glass not being sapphire you cannot tell the difference visually

From whereabouts?

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#274

"An example from Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland: If you’re a top executive, turning up to work on a bicycle is a high-status activity because it was a choice and not a necessity. But if you work at Pizza Hut, turning up on a bike means you can’t afford a car." This tidbit reminds me of a similar anecdote (that my experience aligns with) re: the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW i…

I think there's a bit of an idea now that you should be expressing yourself with your money, not expressing society's ideas. Around cars and watches, this creates a little bit of a "dead zone" for prestigious professionals.

For example, if you aren't showing up in a $200k Maserati, your car had better be under $50k (maybe $70k with inflation). Only posers who aren't really into cars but want to show off their wealth spend $120k on a car.

For watches, the same thing happens: if you're wearing a watch less than $50k, it had better be under $500. Otherwise you probably don't care much about watches.

Clothing seems to be the same at many companies: you had better wear tailored suits and shirts or be less dressy than "business casual."

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#275
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One simple option: Hand someone some cash, they send you some BTC

Not that simple. You need to validate the transaction on the chain and that takes hours

You only need a single confirmation these days. It takes 10 minutes.

Source: have been doing this for years.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#276

This kind of signaling is the reason why I ended up voluntarily with no friends in my mid 30s, down from a pretty active social life in my 20s knowing hundreds of people and regularly hanging out with many dozens, mostly in the Bay Area but also in Europe, where I’m originally from. As people get older, I noticed they just can’t stop flashing how successful they are, how they can afford this or that, and suddenly eve…

I'm kinda like this as well.

I'm not a misanthrope, and still enjoy the company of people. But. I used to status-jockey and be unconsciously and consciously obsessed with all of that, no matter the arena/ context/ subculture, etc. But doing a lot of inner work and unearthing what my core drives/ motives/ needs were, a lot of that status-jockeying and wanting to be in the in-group to feel this existential sense of acceptance and security started to come into focus, and a lot of old friendships became revealed as insecurity/ fear based (on both parties). And trying to introduce new paradigms to old friends became sort of the last-ditch effort to try to salvage relationships that were built on shaky foundation.

It also made me look back on when people tried to speak truth into my beliefs when I was still caught-up in wanting to be relevant and seen as high-status & outwardly respectable, and how I couldn't hear what people were saying.

I still wanna give people a chance, though, but accept them for where they communicate they are at and leave em alone if they're deep in that status-chasing game, and have no desire to explore getting out of that mess. There are still people out there who want to enjoy life and find meaning on other terms than getting validation from an anonymous audience/ jury that they believe has the power to approve or reject them.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#277

It was at the "fashionably late" example where I started wondering if this chronicler of human behavior was themselves human, since arriving late to parties has very little to do with status and much more to do with not wanting to be one of the uncomfortable first or second guests. Late arrival is an expectation at ordinary parties, not a privilege.

Depends on culture. In some culture arriving late is a privilege, since everyone will be there to observe your entrance. Seats, food, entrance will be guaranteed for you. Heck, we see it in the US with the clubbing scene.

Fair enough, I'm just talking about parties in the US, and not dinner parties.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#278

Boss gives a dinner party at their home for their employees. All the guests show up in their best. Boss is in shorts, t-shirt and sandals.

Boss is a jerk.

Or it's just a miscommunication: The boss was throwing the party with the intention of everyone having a chance to relax and have fun, but everyone else saw it as a career opportunity and "dressed for success".

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your "for the record" doesn't work even for that. Failure does not offset success. I'm afraid that I don't understand the comment. Sorry. I'm stupid that way.

In business, failure is the default outcome, not a negative. Someone who has failed 9 times and won big once is pretty much in the same place as someone who has tried once and succeeded once. Both are way ahead of someone who is 0-0.

Ah. That makes sense. Good point.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#280
post #260

As always, context is everything. Not all countersignals are that costly. For example, casual wear is common among devs. This signals that our skill set is valuable enough that we don't need to comply with corporate dress codes. Sometimes someone from a poor background turns up in a suit - for example, we had a QA guy who did, having converted from some previous career via a short course. Sometimes new grads come to…

Perhaps dressing poorly (very common) and not being in shape (bimodal distribution, there are many in very good shape and many in very bad shape, few in between) started out as a counter-signal, but today it is just sloppiness, or convenience, like it is more convenient to order fast food instead of grilling chicken.

I work in the tech industry, and although I don't usually wear a suit, I often show up in a spezzato, a pair of pants and a jacket of a different fabric/color. Nothing too flashy, but well put together. And I think that's the counter signal nowadays: show up looking good, feeling good, being what we want to be.

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