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Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

wsj.com

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Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#351

Post by powerapple »

enkid wrote: post #141
powerapple wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. The protest is about compensation, the workers were promised to have 10k once they get pass the probation period, 3 months. They were let go before the 3 month probation finished, and they demand the payment. You don't just go around developing world and criticize people not eating organic food or anything. It is not right. I wish Chinese workers get paid the same amount as their western counterparts, the fact…

Wait, are you saying because China isn't rich, workers shouldn't have rights? I'm legitimately asking, because when you boil down your argument, that's what it sounds like.

Workers have rights. They have the rights to choose to work or not, they have the rights to feel happy about their salary and compensation or not. Things develop naturally. People want factory to move out of China not because they care about worker's right? If they care about the right, they would ask Apple to pay more instead of moving out of the country. Did I say workers shouldn't have rights? You cannot boil down my argument to a sentence does not make sense. Developing countries need to make tradeoffs. Work extra time so their next generation can live better. These things are not given, it is not like you are a great social activist and your country suddenly can improve economically as well. The world is under financial colonization, developing world is at the bottom because their influence is weak.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#352

Post by programmer_dude »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #138
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India, being a democracy, means that governments have to give in to demands of voter groups. The two largest voter groups are farmers and low wage labor. This has ensured that acquiring land for large scale projects or changing labor laws carries massive political risk. Changes to India’s farm laws now seem next to impossible. I doubt India will have a more popular government than it has today. Yet, it had to cave in…

>India, being a democracy, means that governments have to give in to demands of voter groups Love how everyone is throwing around the word "democracy" in this thread like saying it makes hot true and that it has some specific meaning. The only reason Apple is moving there is because it is NOT a democracy. 'Electoral autocracy': The downgrading of India's democracy https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-56393944

LOL.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#353

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #203
TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At the scale these things work out there’s no way to really “have a backup” not in the true sense that backup means. If you build a factory you use a factory Not really true at all... I mean, if you want to scale, just build another line? I worked on Capex at Tesla and there was explicit talks of backup factory's. Elon was always talking about WW3 during covid and how we need to massively scale up our operations, ha…

Appreciate the input. I would say that another line at the same location isn’t a back up, that’s scaling and you can choose to run that line or not. It’s not uncommon to run a second or third line at lesser capacity than the primary line (the Nissan plant in Sunderland flex the secondary lines a lot for example). Much of my manufacturing knowledge comes from automotive and it’s very very very rare to run a literal ba…

The factorys tesla is making can make all models in different regions, with nothing required to be shipped between the factorys.

I didn't mean back up as in they sit idle, but are able to produce every portion of the car. (Well.. technically fremont can't because it needs batterys from Reno, but thats besides the point)

The Berlin, Texas, Shanghai factorys are essentially 'back-up factorys'.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#354

Post by spopejoy »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #303
ignoramous wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you're trolling but this wasn't even hard to find: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Practices_of_Apple_Inc.#Manufa... I wish sometimes folks could see past their paychecks, privilege, and holier-than-thou attitude. That's too much to ask. I mean, better chances at holding Apple accountable than dealing with its notorious fanbois.

I don't have a paycheck, I'm living off capital gains, thank you. Your argument is a great example of throwing a pile of words (via your link) at a question and missing entirely, because the question is, "Does foreign investment in manufacturing make workers of a country better off?" and the answer is, "Yes, vastly." But thank you for pointing out that Communist governance is awful, we're in agreement there.

> "Does foreign investment ... make workers better off?" ... "Yes, vastly."

This argument didn't survive the 2010s, the elephant graph argument has since been thoroughly trashed as the rentier-class propaganda it always was.

China is not some meek recipient of Western wealth but instead a canny operator to the benefit of their upper classes and rulers, outsmarting the rest of the world for not the first time in human history. The West is the tail, not the dog here; foreign investment was there for the taking in a shortsighted race to the bottom.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#355

Post by SamReidHughes »

ignoramous wrote: post #308
SamReidHughes wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not actually computing the answer to whether foreign investment made the Chinese vastly better off. The answer is, it did. You can even absorb an entire Wikipedia section into the question without considering the counterfactual of what unemployment or lower-wage factor employment or agrarian employment practices were like, and the answer is yes, it did. > then try to reason about it all (including the profits…

> You're not actually computing the answer to whether foreign investment made the Chinese vastly better off. That could have happened without humans being treated like cattle. I don't think that's hard to compute? If it is, no amount of 'what else could the american capitalists do if not leverage lower wage structures to their advantage' justifies that, I am sorry. > Apple's profits come from their customers giving t…

You aren't addressing whether they'd be better off or worse off, with one less option for employment. A handful of complaints and controversies as linked doesn't actually provide the information necessary to draw the conclusion you claim.

Wouldn't you expect workers to be better off in treatment when the end customer has high margins, as Apple did, compared to low margins, as the next best employer would have?

> Employees took the profits?

Yes, that's why they got jobs -- the money.

And they took more at other companies, too, because having Apple do manufacturing in China also drives up wages at competing employers.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#356

Post by [deleted] »

latexr wrote: post #329
ignoramous wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you're trolling but this wasn't even hard to find: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Practices_of_Apple_Inc.#Manufa... I wish sometimes folks could see past their paychecks, privilege, and holier-than-thou attitude. That's too much to ask. I mean, better chances at holding Apple accountable than dealing with its notorious fanbois.

When you insult someone in your argument, their instinct will be to clam up and double down to defend themselves even if intellectually they’d agree with you. If you truly wish to enact change in another’s point of view, allow them the emotional safe space to explore and turn around their views. Be honest and show you’re willing to work with them against the problem . Otherwise you end up with a frustrating shouting…

[deleted]

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#357

Post by mikymoothrowa »

jsnell wrote: post #348
mikymoothrowa wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is plain circular reasoning. You’re complaining that india doesn’t have the manufacturing capability by pointing to the fact that stuff is not manufactured in India, in a thread that talks about manufacturing moving to India. You realistically don’t have a way to measure capability.

First, I'm not complaining about anything. I do not give a fuck about whether India manufactures stuff or not. But there was a question about a number, I provided an answer for how it could be derived. You're welcome! I disagree with your objection. Actual current output is a great proxy for actual current manufacturing capability, assuming even a tiny bit of rationality. If the two are not linked like you imply - an…

one only needs to look at the cement/steel production vs capacity to understand that they’re not the same.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#358

Post by ignoramous »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #355
ignoramous wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're not actually computing the answer to whether foreign investment made the Chinese vastly better off. That could have happened without humans being treated like cattle. I don't think that's hard to compute? If it is, no amount of 'what else could the american capitalists do if not leverage lower wage structures to their advantage' justifies that, I am sorry. > Apple's profits come from their customers giving t…

You aren't addressing whether they'd be better off or worse off, with one less option for employment. A handful of complaints and controversies as linked doesn't actually provide the information necessary to draw the conclusion you claim. Wouldn't you expect workers to be better off in treatment when the end customer has high margins, as Apple did, compared to low margins, as the next best employer would have? > Empl…

I get your point that one can't have their cake and eat it too, but the scale at which Apple operates (and its sustained strong performance) makes it super hard to justify any form of exploitation. In MBA terms, regardless of the positive influence of ginormous captial, ESG matters for ginormous companies even more.
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