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Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

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341–350 of 358 posts

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#341
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What aspect of China makes the West look like a 'backwater'? Compare China homicide rates to USA. Or China incarceration rate to USA incarceration rate.

China has less prisoners and the fastest wait times for organ transplants.

US has also many more strip clubs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_trafficking_in_the_United_...

The United States ranks as one of the worst countries in the world for human trafficking

Despite a common and widespread misconception, human trafficking is not just a problem outside the US. It also happens here, within United States borders, and in every state.

https://deliverfund.org/the-human-trafficking-problem-in-ame...

Listen, let's have an honest discussion here.

What China does better than USA?

Less people incarcerated is good, how the prisoners are treated is another issue entirely and of course China can and should be heavily criticized for that.

But penal labor for literally cents/day or private prisons as a source of profit or the death penalty are something that the US, above all, should be able to improve on, before lecturing other countries over human rights.

Let's talk about

“Guantanamo Bay is a site of unparalleled notoriety, defined by the systematic use of torture, and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment against hundreds of men brought to the site and deprived of their most fundamental rights.”

This is a statement from "The Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights of the United Nations".

What have the consequences been? Nothing. Literally nothing has changed!

People have been detained there for years, most of them without any charges, denied of the right to a due process, only because they were Muslims.

39 of those men are still kept captive there as of today, 20 years later, 27 of them have never been charged with any crime, the others have been cleared for transfer years ago, but are still there.

Imagine if China did something like that what the US would be saying about it.

That's the moral short circuit: if it's wrong it must be wrong for everybody, especially for those claiming to hold in high regards human rights, not only if China or Russia do it.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#343

iPhone made in China is no better than the cotton from Xinjiang. Earlier the reports are workers in the China iPhone factory had a protest and brutal conflict with the local police. Reasons varied from unbearable working condition, the zero-covid policy, and being deceived about the compensation. After the local police oppressed the campaign, the government assigned headcounts to local villages, demanding them to fil…

Ethics get in the way of maximizing profits. We could have ethical treatment of workers with affordable phones while the rich stay rich, but we're afraid of that

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#344
post #240
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple and many westerners never understand the risk and the ethics implication of doing business in China. May be for many westerners, but not Apple. They knew exactly what they are doing. >It turns out that in spite of all values that Apple promotes, it actually cares about nothing but the profit and its comfortable zone in China. Which is the worst part of it all. Their insane hypocrisy. Now that Apple is only mov…

Exactly. Tim Cook was the supply chain guy. He became CEO because he was the only one as maniacally focused as Jobs, as proven to Steve by his willingness to make a literal deal with the devil. The India plan will probably stick because Apple feels burned by zero covid and won’t keep themselves open to that kind of risk going forward.

It's at the point where corporations have to be abusive to compete. This is what happens when government doesn't require minimum humane treatment and fairness for workers, based on having a good life, not just scraping by or sacrificing themselves to the machine for their family.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#345
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huawei designs its own ARM based chips and modems that BBK and Xiaomi do not. Unrelated: India and SEA are where a good majority of these BBK phones are sold. And BBK tapped into the PPI scheme of India to start manufacturing in India > 3 years ago. Most phones sold in India are made in India.

> India and SEA are where a good majority of these BBK phones are sold. Those BBK phones have a huge presence in China, you can pretty much find their shops in every mall and every major street. I'd be surprised if the majority are sold outside of China. They are in general shitty phones trying to rip off people who are not into tech, I mean you can easily get like 1-2 generation older hardware when compared with Xia…

> They are in general shitty phones trying to rip off people who are not into tech

Oneplus is aimed at exactly the opposite of this. BBK makes oneplus too.

They’re just covering all the bases.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#346
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but how is this capability measured? And why is it being assumed here that labor laws need to be suppressed to make iphone production viable?

It seems fair to assume that actual output and manufacturing capability are closely correlated (there's a limit to how much unused capacity can get built). Here's the manufacturing output by country (data from World Bank): https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NV.IND.MANF.CD?most_rec... China is at about $5 trillion, India about $450 billion. So it's not 5%, but we are still talking of an order of magnitude.

This is plain circular reasoning.

You’re complaining that india doesn’t have the manufacturing capability by pointing to the fact that stuff is not manufactured in India, in a thread that talks about manufacturing moving to India.

You realistically don’t have a way to measure capability.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#347
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah considering that China for about 2000 More like 500 years (1000 years at best if you stretch it very hard)

China harkening back 2000 years is like the US harkening back to Rome. Fact is modern communist China is actively erasing its history and is quite new on the world stage.

It's more like the British harkening back to Chaucer's England.

The problem with the Rome analogy is that China has had much greater continuity than Europe. China is what Europe would have been, if the Roman Empire had been reconstituted each time it collapsed.

Imagine if there were still one political entity ruling the entire Mediterranean basin and Western Europe, calling itself "Rome," speaking a Romance language, and in which every educated person was still capable of reading the Latin classics (with some difficulty).

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#348
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems fair to assume that actual output and manufacturing capability are closely correlated (there's a limit to how much unused capacity can get built). Here's the manufacturing output by country (data from World Bank): https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NV.IND.MANF.CD?most_rec... China is at about $5 trillion, India about $450 billion. So it's not 5%, but we are still talking of an order of magnitude.

This is plain circular reasoning. You’re complaining that india doesn’t have the manufacturing capability by pointing to the fact that stuff is not manufactured in India, in a thread that talks about manufacturing moving to India. You realistically don’t have a way to measure capability.

First, I'm not complaining about anything. I do not give a fuck about whether India manufactures stuff or not. But there was a question about a number, I provided an answer for how it could be derived. You're welcome!

I disagree with your objection. Actual current output is a great proxy for actual current manufacturing capability, assuming even a tiny bit of rationality. If the two are not linked like you imply - and in fact India already has as much capacity as China - then somebody built 10x more factories than they needed, and lost unimaginable amounts of money doing so. Is that what you're suggesting happened?

Now, the claim is not that the factories, supply chains, trained workforce, etc could not eventually scale to the same size in India as in China. But somebody actually needs to do that work. Until it is done, the capability possibly does not in exist.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#349

You could move it to the US? Im just saying. To say appalachia?

There's not enough people. Unemployment rates are like 4%, population density is like 115 people per square mile, and workforce participation is like 60%. That's like ~2.8 per square mile you can employ. That's not even ~100,000 people in a 100 mile radius. No way you're going to attract 10% of them to work in your factory. Somewhere like Detroit might be possible - ~4.5M people, 6.1% unemployment, ~62% participation…

Plus a port, excellent rail infra, and a massive international airport. There's a reason that Detroit was once the factory of the world.

I think that _something_ like this will eventually happen, as SEA moves up the wealth ladder.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#350
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah considering that China for about 2000 years was the leading civilisation I'm not sure why people use that term.

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