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Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

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81–90 of 358 posts

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#81
post #27

I wish we could fix whatever prevents this from happening at scale in Mexico, too (with some high value production in the US and potentially Canada as well, and maybe some other supplies coming from the elsewhere in the Americas.). I wonder if it is infrastructure, regulation, labor, or what.

I remember seeing a chart a while back that said the actual cost of manufacturing in China is roughly the same as in the US, one has much lower labor costs and the other much lower energy costs. At the time at least it was posited the benefit of China manufacturing was co-location of suppliers and shorter supply chains. edit: [1] lists a BCG report from roughly when I was thinking and references a slightly earlier Bl…

I doubt that a modern American worker will give you much higher quality than a Chinese worker, and the American will be very expensive.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#83

iPhone made in China is no better than the cotton from Xinjiang. Earlier the reports are workers in the China iPhone factory had a protest and brutal conflict with the local police. Reasons varied from unbearable working condition, the zero-covid policy, and being deceived about the compensation. After the local police oppressed the campaign, the government assigned headcounts to local villages, demanding them to fil…

I don't know where people get the idea people are semi-enslaved in factories.. Having lived in China, in my second hand experience Chinese worker protection laws are quite strict. Somewhere between US and Europe. It's not really easy to fire people and people regularly sue their employers and win. The legal system is generally very heavily biased towards the little guy I just feel really bad for these people. They pr…

This reads oddly like propaganda and flies against any and all of the evidence that we regularly observe, including the protests against working conditions that we are observing now

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where people get the idea people are semi-enslaved in factories.. Having lived in China, in my second hand experience Chinese worker protection laws are quite strict. Somewhere between US and Europe. It's not really easy to fire people and people regularly sue their employers and win. The legal system is generally very heavily biased towards the little guy I just feel really bad for these people. They pr…

This reads oddly like propaganda and flies against any and all of the evidence that we regularly observe, including the protests against working conditions that we are observing now

China does have some of the best worker protection laws.

The protests we’re observing now, including the one in the iphone city, are against the government.

Let’s not conflate the two.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#86
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised it's so low. I know that they already have very established processes in China, and their contractors have probably invested a lot in tooling for those factories, but it seems interesting that they would still prefer to move less that 50% of their capacity there. Maybe they see India as carrying its own risks?

India, being a democracy, means that governments have to give in to demands of voter groups. The two largest voter groups are farmers and low wage labor. This has ensured that acquiring land for large scale projects or changing labor laws carries massive political risk. Changes to India’s farm laws now seem next to impossible. I doubt India will have a more popular government than it has today. Yet, it had to cave in…

> This has ensured that acquiring land for large scale projects … a political risk

You’re confusing land acquisition issues for road/rail projects where a very specific parcel of land is required with land acquisition for factories.

Indian States are some of the largest land owners and there are so many notified SEZs in several Indian states.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#87
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> India and Vietnam have their own challenges. > Vietnam’s manufacturing was growing quickly but was short of workers. The country has just under 100 million people, less than a 10th of China’s population. > India has a population nearly the size of China’s but not the same level of governmental coordination. Apple has found it hard to navigate India because each state is run differently and regional governments sadd…

India has 5% manufacturing capabilities of China and will be at least 2x expensive and slow. India also has strong labor laws and local politicians still need votes

Sorry, but how is this capability measured?

And why is it being assumed here that labor laws need to be suppressed to make iphone production viable?

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I basically agree with you on all points. But can we please drop this "civilized world" term? I suggest "democratic world".

Yeah considering that China for about 2000 years was the leading civilisation I'm not sure why people use that term.

> Yeah considering that China for about 2000

More like 500 years (1000 years at best if you stretch it very hard)

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#89

iPhone made in China is no better than the cotton from Xinjiang. Earlier the reports are workers in the China iPhone factory had a protest and brutal conflict with the local police. Reasons varied from unbearable working condition, the zero-covid policy, and being deceived about the compensation. After the local police oppressed the campaign, the government assigned headcounts to local villages, demanding them to fil…

Truth is, there is no way to profitably produce any durable consumer products without dealing with someone who treats workers like trash, simply because everyone else is also doing this. Of course, we have a choice of them being Commies (China), or not being Commies (India), but that's about it. Only way to fundamentally fix it will be to introduce a new Iron Curtain where we will "not trade with anyone we don't cont…

Calling China Commies is misplaced, its a self proclaimed communist state in the same way that North Korea is a self proclaimed democratic state. I think (not sure) China is mostly seen as "state-capitalist" by experts, which means a capitalist market with heavy state control & influence.

To label China as communist is similar to labeling the US as a company: it's a misrepresentation of the truth and says more about the labeler than about the country itself.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#90
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple and many westerners never understand the risk and the ethics implication of doing business in China. Apple industrial partners are all asians. Samsung and the like don't do any better regarding ethics. Not sure why the divide with the "ignorant west" is necessary in your argument. Of course people at Apple understand the risk, and it is taken into account to generate as much profit as possible.

> Apple industrial partners are all asians. Samsung and the like don't do any better regarding ethics. You can rightfully complain about labor practices in other Asian countries, but forced labor from concentration camps is a uniquely Chinese atrocity.

I think you should read up more in Asia if you think slave labor is unique to China, you can start with Thai fishing industry.

Btw not that it would be case with Apple, these are Taiwanese companies with factories in China, so maybe instead blaming China blame the Taiwan, but I understand it's not trendy.

Oh and let's not forget "democratic" Vietnam with communist gov censoring internet and imprisoning people for opinions, where did I see that? And don't get me started on biggest "democracy" where you still have caste system which is mutually exclusive with democracy. Lived in China and visited all these for extended periods and it's very naive to think Vietnam or India are some step ups conscience wise.

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