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Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

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Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#101

Post by bink »

prox wrote: post #38
dragontamer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all know Elon Musk is going to relearn the entire moderation curve. We're just amused that the dude thinks he is a genius, but is unable to think a step or two ahead. The rules will come down, because they have to. If it took "Ye" posting a Swastika and saying Hitler was awesome to convince Elon then so be it. Elon will meet many, many other people who will push the moderation curve towards where everyone else has…

Anyone who has ever moderated knows that allowing a free-speech-for-all, while seemingly a noble ideal, turns into something that nobody needs nor wants. Communication becomes noisy, the topics tend to favour a lowest denominator of quality, and more akin to a soapbox arena then a place of pure speech. The solution it seems to me is in the name : moderation. Instead of unfiltered thoughts, we moderate so we can more…

It makes me wonder if Elon finally got around to reading the parable about kicking the "nice nazi" out of your bar.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TalesFromYourServer/comments/hsiisw...

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#102

Post by nickthegreek »

memish wrote: post #93
mabbo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the context of the banning of Kanye West is important. Kanye posted some really super antisemetic things. At one point, he posted a picture of a swastika overtop of a star of David. Then he posted an unflattering picture of Elon Musk- and was banned within minutes. When Elon Musk says "free speech" he means "free speech for me, not for thee". You can say anything you like, as long as Elon likes it too.

False. He specifically pointed out which one was fine and which one wasn't. "Just clarifying that his account is being suspended for incitement to violence, not an unflattering pic of me being hosed by Ari. Frankly, I found those pics to be helpful motivation to lose weight!" https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1598546057138524160

It is not false because elon said something else. Elon has been posting many false things on twitter the past few weeks. So I am sorry to say, his word isn't good enough. I mean, he is unbanning thousands of actual nazis as we speak, but bans Ye (who was just also unbanned for behavior that was worse than a picture of a swastika.) None of this tracks. He needs to put forth an actual moderation policy and stick with it. Thats what people want. But then he would actually have to do the hard work of drawing a line and defending it.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#103

Post by giantrobot »

scythe wrote: post #64
cypress66 wrote: post #26

He probably got scared by advertisers or Apple or something. Ideally in my opinion, Twitter should have a setting by default that hides all of that content, but if you disable it you get 4chan-like moderation (so anything that's legal). In countries with a lesser degree of freedom of speech (I think swastikas are illegal in Germany for example), you wouldn't be able to disable that setting.

My idea, which I've posted before, is that you require users to pay to turn off the filter. (After all, if they're bad for ad revenue, they can't be "the product".) This also mostly enforces region-locking, at least requiring some effort to bypass.

But that leads to dog wagging. Twitter as a platform would be incentivized to encourage hate speech etc in order to have something to entice people to pay to access it.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#104

Post by nicce »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #39
AftHurrahWinch wrote: post #9

Is this the 12th time this article has been posted? @dang is there any chance HN will resume de-duplicating submissions in the future? Do you need a hand with anything? Don't tell my boss but I've got a few spare cycles this sprint. ;) [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33448038 [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33442277 [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33749415 [3]: https://news.ycombinator.c…

Most of those probably didn't get enough points to hit the front page. This is the first time I've seen the article, so I'm happy it was let through.

That's the point of limiting reposts. To reduce the resubmissions in case you get lucky to get into the front page. Everyone gets the same chances with time limited single shot. Otherwise, spamming will take over.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#105

Post by bink »

cypress66 wrote: post #26

He probably got scared by advertisers or Apple or something. Ideally in my opinion, Twitter should have a setting by default that hides all of that content, but if you disable it you get 4chan-like moderation (so anything that's legal). In countries with a lesser degree of freedom of speech (I think swastikas are illegal in Germany for example), you wouldn't be able to disable that setting.

The last time I dealt with Apple's app store terms of service that was a critical part. You couldn't default people into pornography or hate speech. There had to be a login and an option to enable adult content.

I think he'll find that even if he complies with that rule people will still leave. Forcing an opt-in for one client doesn't prevent them from sending harassing messages to others.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#106

Post by BaseballPhysics »

cameronh90 wrote: post #12

> People are leaving the site because of it, and advertisers are pulling ads ” This seems to be, arguably, where the real problems start. I doubt many people expect Twitter to host actually illegal content. However, as long as a social media site is beholden to advertisers, it's going to have an existential requirement to pull certain content, irrespective of how they or anyone else feels about those restrictions. Un…

Advertisers are responding to the expectations of the public. "Brand safety" is an issue of public perception. If people didn't care about brands being side-by-side with white supremacist hate speech, there'd be no push from advertisers to remove it.

So my hypothesis is that, indirectly, the advertisers are helping represent the interests of the vast majority of users who don't want to see that crap, but are unable to have their voices heard over the clamouring minority who want to tweet out swastikas and misgender trans people for the lulz.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#107

Post by guerrilla »

tj-teej wrote: post #17
mmastrac wrote: post #6

Doesn't banning Kanye West from the platform go against his whole "free speech" thing? The absolutists say that there should just be more free speech to drown out the hateful speech. Why isn't he just encouraging people to drown it out instead? I find the unlimited free speech arguments to be disingenuous and lazy most of the time. There's always a limit to speech, and it's not easy to find. That doesn't mean we shou…

It only goes against his "free speech thing" if his "free speech thing" was actually a coherent ideology. Instead his "free speech absolutism" is a brand, it's there to signal what kind of person he is, it's not a set of principles and therefore cannot stand up to scrutiny.

> it's there to signal what kind of person he is

An incoherent person? What do you mean?

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#108

Post by [deleted] »

colordrops wrote: post #29
YetAnotherNick wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swastika is illegal in many countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bans_on_Nazi_symbols

Did he post a swastika? I'm not aware of what exactly got him banned. Wasn't Elon talking about the US anyway? Political speech itself is banned in many countries, so surely that wasn't his measure.

[deleted]

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#109

Post by lanstin »

anon291 wrote: post #88
jakelazaroff wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really what happened to the Babylon Bee, though. They intentionally named a trans woman as their "man of the year". That would be Level Three of this article: > Level Three: “We’re the free speech platform! But no CSAM and no infringement!” > Power to the people. Freedom is great! > “Right, boss, apparently because you keep talking about freedom, a large group of people are taking it to mean they have ‘fre…

Quoted post unavailable.

Remembering the context of people being killed for being trans as a relatively common event. It hasn't reached the millions by any means but we'd like it stopped sooner than that.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#110

Post by themitigating »

atchoo wrote: post #91
lesuorac wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that officially what got Kanye banned? My understanding is that Twitter did not specify what exactly (i.e. which set of tweets) Kanye is banned for.

I think they kind of have. Musk replied "that's fine" to Ye posting the Musk yacht photo and "that is not" to the Star of David Nazi symbol which suggests that was the final line for the ban. The "going deathcon one on the Jews", which led to the pre-Musk ban, is arguably a more explictly a violent threat than the symbol.

The swastika itself represents historical violence on the Jews. I would argue it alone is an explicit threat of violence because I can't see what other meaning today it could have?
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