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Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

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Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#11

Post by briantakita »

martythemaniak wrote: post #5
machina_ex_deus wrote: post #4

90% of the problems come from laws not people. Except the CSAM laws (which are justified as they relate to real physical harm), I think all other laws shouldn't have existed. DMCA, hate speech, mocking presidents, it's all the same. If you're dealing with law might as well just pay good lawyers and stick to your principles instead of gently bending over.

I've always wondered, what are people like you doing on HN anyway, a forum that is really far away from any notion of free speech.

It's always fun to introduce glitches into the matrix of groupthink to demonstrate the futility of dogma veiling simple social power dynamics (aka "soft power")...otoh, HN has some great content. Like any platform with great content, people have to learn how to interact with each other in a pro-social way. People are just going to disagree at times on some subjects. And that's ok...These disagreements often lead to motivate one to create solutions which leads to innovation.

The "we don't like your kind round here" meme is backwards thinking & leads to the cloistered groupthink that is the subject of comedy. The game of "soft power" is a net-negative game so there are winners & losers. The losers don't just go away, so they need to advocate for their God given rights to survive. There is no option not to play the game because the game is ever expanding until the particular systems collapse.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#12

Post by cameronh90 »

> People are leaving the site because of it, and advertisers are pulling ads”

This seems to be, arguably, where the real problems start. I doubt many people expect Twitter to host actually illegal content. However, as long as a social media site is beholden to advertisers, it's going to have an existential requirement to pull certain content, irrespective of how they or anyone else feels about those restrictions.

Until Twitter can figure out a way to fund itself other than by advertising, the idea of it being a free speech platform is a pipe dream.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#13

Post by machina_ex_deus »

martythemaniak wrote: post #5
machina_ex_deus wrote: post #4

90% of the problems come from laws not people. Except the CSAM laws (which are justified as they relate to real physical harm), I think all other laws shouldn't have existed. DMCA, hate speech, mocking presidents, it's all the same. If you're dealing with law might as well just pay good lawyers and stick to your principles instead of gently bending over.

I've always wondered, what are people like you doing on HN anyway, a forum that is really far away from any notion of free speech.

What's the point in getting someone who already agrees to listen? You want to find those willing to listen that don't agree.

I don't want to reinforce my ego that I have people agreeing with me, I could get plenty of that if I wanted, I want those disagreeing and willing to listen to see the other side. I want to see what's actually a convincing argument that's changing opinion.

But hey, everyone's so used to the likes and points system, they forget that speaking is to covey a message, not to get internet points for your ego. If that's all free speech means to you, no wonder you give it away easily.

I happily paid those -5 internet points. If that surprised any of the downvoters, maybe they will think again what's the point of speech that does nothing. It's funny how none of them responded with actual speech, maybe because they think talking is about getting those downvotes and not about interacting with people.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#14

Post by AftHurrahWinch »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #7
mmastrac wrote: post #6

Doesn't banning Kanye West from the platform go against his whole "free speech" thing? The absolutists say that there should just be more free speech to drown out the hateful speech. Why isn't he just encouraging people to drown it out instead? I find the unlimited free speech arguments to be disingenuous and lazy most of the time. There's always a limit to speech, and it's not easy to find. That doesn't mean we shou…

Yes it does, at least in the United States... but I imagine he determined that free speech has limits in other parts of the world.

> I imagine he determined that free speech has limits in other parts of the world

How unfortunate that we're left to imagine this, rather than having the new ownership articulate a content moderation policy that reflects their curation decisions.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#15

Post by throwawayacc4 »

martythemaniak wrote: post #5
machina_ex_deus wrote: post #4

90% of the problems come from laws not people. Except the CSAM laws (which are justified as they relate to real physical harm), I think all other laws shouldn't have existed. DMCA, hate speech, mocking presidents, it's all the same. If you're dealing with law might as well just pay good lawyers and stick to your principles instead of gently bending over.

I've always wondered, what are people like you doing on HN anyway, a forum that is really far away from any notion of free speech.

Relative to other large social media sites (reddit, Tumblr, Twitter pre-Elon, etc.) HN is a bastion of free speech. Reddit being possibly the least free of them all.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#17

Post by tj-teej »

mmastrac wrote: post #6

Doesn't banning Kanye West from the platform go against his whole "free speech" thing? The absolutists say that there should just be more free speech to drown out the hateful speech. Why isn't he just encouraging people to drown it out instead? I find the unlimited free speech arguments to be disingenuous and lazy most of the time. There's always a limit to speech, and it's not easy to find. That doesn't mean we shou…

It only goes against his "free speech thing" if his "free speech thing" was actually a coherent ideology.

Instead his "free speech absolutism" is a brand, it's there to signal what kind of person he is, it's not a set of principles and therefore cannot stand up to scrutiny.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#18

Post by colordrops »

mmastrac wrote: post #6

Doesn't banning Kanye West from the platform go against his whole "free speech" thing? The absolutists say that there should just be more free speech to drown out the hateful speech. Why isn't he just encouraging people to drown it out instead? I find the unlimited free speech arguments to be disingenuous and lazy most of the time. There's always a limit to speech, and it's not easy to find. That doesn't mean we shou…

Right, didn't Elon say something about any speech that is not illegal should be allowed? Did Kanye say anything illegal?

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#19

Post by corytheboyd »

mmastrac wrote: post #6

Doesn't banning Kanye West from the platform go against his whole "free speech" thing? The absolutists say that there should just be more free speech to drown out the hateful speech. Why isn't he just encouraging people to drown it out instead? I find the unlimited free speech arguments to be disingenuous and lazy most of the time. There's always a limit to speech, and it's not easy to find. That doesn't mean we shou…

It's about money, not "free speech". Kanye posting hate speech drives away advertisers and twitter loses money. Musk is a grifter just like everyone else, his siren song being this "free speech" bullshit. The grift stopped working so he backpedaled. Seems fairly simple to me.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#20

Post by YetAnotherNick »

colordrops wrote: post #18
mmastrac wrote: post #6

Doesn't banning Kanye West from the platform go against his whole "free speech" thing? The absolutists say that there should just be more free speech to drown out the hateful speech. Why isn't he just encouraging people to drown it out instead? I find the unlimited free speech arguments to be disingenuous and lazy most of the time. There's always a limit to speech, and it's not easy to find. That doesn't mean we shou…

Right, didn't Elon say something about any speech that is not illegal should be allowed? Did Kanye say anything illegal?

Swastika is illegal in many countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bans_on_Nazi_symbols
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