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Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

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Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#311

Post by forgotmypw17 »

djmips wrote: post #301
317070 wrote: post #289

I have been having bigger bowel troubles ever since I started working in Google five years ago. They went away during the pandemic, but this week I'm sick with some kind of infection in my abdomen again. I never had that before starting in Google, and I always was able to pretty much eat what I want. Now I don't think it's the food, which is great (and I have been experimenting to see if I could narrow it down). But…

I've always rinsed my dishes no matter how 'clean' they seem to be from a cupboard. I've noticed the residues and a certain slippery feel under water. I rinse them until they are no longer 'slippery'. This could be a rinse aid or it could be bad rinsing of a detergent. Either way I figured it's not a good idea to ingest detergent or rinse aid.

With most dishwashers, if I take a freshly 'washed' class out and fill it with water, I can see foamy bubbles all around the edge of the glass which stay for a while.

If I then rinse it a couple times and try again, I see a few bubbles which quickly dissipate.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#312

Post by AdrianB1 »

michael1999 wrote: post #197
nerdponx wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Market has spoken right or wrong. I call BS on this. The non-pouch detergents disappeared, that much I know. I strongly doubt people had stopped buying gel and powder. I suspect that some bright bulb at Johnson & Johnson or wherever did the math and realized that pouch margins were higher than gel and powder margins.

The marketing side of the market has spoken. Fixed serving sizes force over-use. Lots of included water means extra volume and weight (perceived value) on the shelf. While powders allow measured use, and reduce turnover. I buy 20lb boxes of cheap powder and they last for months. Hot water just doesn’t need that much help if you put some in the pre-wash too.

20 years ago in my country overuse of powder detergents was well known by all the manufacturers; this is when fixed serving sizes were developed as a way to contain the problem and they are also considered more convenient by most consumers. I was working in one of these companies at that time, so I know the subject pretty well.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#313

Post by aussieshibe »

tailspin2019 wrote: post #300
throwawaylinux wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also lions.

I always give my dishes a quick rinse to wash off any excess lions.

"Wash off any excess lions" without even mentioning to check for alkali metals first.

You're going to kill some poor soul trying to clean all the baked-in francium and lions off their crockery.

Shame on you.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#314

Post by forgotmypw17 »

causi wrote: post #238

We sought to investigate the effects of professional and household dishwashers Interestingly, detergent residue from professional dishwashers demonstrated the remnant of a significant amount of cytotoxic and epithelial barrier–damaging rinse aid remaining on washed and ready-to-use dishware. Is the reader to draw the conclusion that significant levels of rinse-aid are not found in dishes cleaned by home dishwashers?…

As I mentioned in another comment, the easy way to test for this is to take a freshly-dishwashed glass and fill it with water. Look for foamy bubbles that don't clear up quickly around the edge. Then rinse it thoroughly and try again.

With most home dishwashers, I have seen evidence of leftovers.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#315

Post by ornornor »

birken wrote: post #270
runnerup wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would personally get the silenced fans in the largest diameter you can afford / fits in your desired space because it will move larger amounts of air more quietly. The apartment was 700 sq. ft. I got the silenced 6" and it's reasonably quiet at most speeds, and not that loud at the highest speed -- putting filters at both intake and outlet greatly reduced the noise vs. just one side. If you get the filters and fans…

I've been running a similar setup next to my litter box for about 2 years using "Vivosun" products, which seem like a cheaper knockoff version of Terrabloom. The Terrabloom stuff looks higher quality and I can't compare it directly to Vivosun, but I've got no complaints about my Vivosun duct fan or carbon filters. I'm not necessarily suggesting one brand over the other, but just to add that you can run a knockoff ver…

I’m trying to picture the systems. They’re basically a carbon filter sandwiched by two fans, it runs the air through the filter and puts it back in the room? Or is it connected to a vent that exhausts the air outside (or does it filter one coming outside air?)

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#316

Post by egberts1 »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #278
dreamcompiler wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a half teaspoon of citric acid powder.

Hope you enjoy replacing seals

Oooh, ouch. Yeah, in an industrial setting (PCB, the printed circuit board, not the oil-based ones found in end-feeder poled step-down transformer).

Citrus acid does "WONDER" in shorten lifespan of rubber/plastic seals.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#317

Post by neurostimulant »

AtomicOrbital wrote: post #224

I wash dishes by hand with hot water and a Korean abrasive cloth using no soap ... It's quicker and easier than anything else

How hot is the water? Soap kills and wash bacteria off the dish's surface, so if you substitute it with just hot water, the water have to be hot enough to kill those bacteria.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#318

Post by ornornor »

blibble wrote: post #168
m463 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder about sulfates, specifically SLS (sodium lauryl sulfate - which has many whack-a-mole names). SLS is a surficant, and although not named in this study, it has been shown in other studies to interfere with mucous membranes (canker sores, etc) I would wonder if that happens in the gut too. It is in many things. toothpaste, shampoo, dishwasher and laundry detergents, and lots more Since people are trying to avo…

> Since people are trying to avoid SLS, MANY tricky marketing synonyms have appeared to obfuscate ingredient lists: this seems to be almost the definition of evil people are trying to avoid something specific that makes them ill, so they try to hide it from them instead? scum

Welcome to late stage capitalism I guess.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#319

Post by ornornor »

rubicon33 wrote: post #250
m463 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder about sulfates, specifically SLS (sodium lauryl sulfate - which has many whack-a-mole names). SLS is a surficant, and although not named in this study, it has been shown in other studies to interfere with mucous membranes (canker sores, etc) I would wonder if that happens in the gut too. It is in many things. toothpaste, shampoo, dishwasher and laundry detergents, and lots more Since people are trying to avo…

I used to get canker sores every once in a while. I cut out SLS by purchasing Toms toothpaste, and that helped a lot. I would still get them though, maybe twice a year. The thing that finally fixed it was almonds. I stopped eating almonds and I’ve never had a canker sore since.

Same here. Took me two decades to figure it out.

Hardly ever get them anymore since when it was a weekly occurrence before.

There aren’t many SLS free toothpastes. In Europe I found Elmex and in the Americas Sensodyne (not all, check ingredients)

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#320

Post by OJFord »

julianz wrote: post #226
js2 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fisher & Paykel dish drawers have a salt-dispenser, at least my 2004 models do. They are (were?) designed in New Zealand but sold in the U.S. For a while they were sold rebranded by KitchenAid. My water isn't hard though so I haven't had to use any salt. (Aside, and I don't know if they are still any good, but these dish drawers are really well engineered. Mine had some problems early on that were resolved by small c…

They were bought out by Haier a few years ago, they still exist as a brand in NZ, not sure about elsewhere. Anecdotally not as good as they used to be.

Available in the UK too. I don't have experience with the drawers (that's the dream though - fridge/freezer especially, drawers for everything (below waist height) makes so much more sense to me) but I'm familiar with a couple of more recent (last couple of years, definitely post-Haier) appliances that are pretty nice. You pay for it though... Seems roughly like Skoda/VW/Audi in terms of top-end F&P branded units with nicer fit and finish than fairly similar but much cheaper Haier branded ones.

I was looking for a fridge-freezer specifically, considered Haier but went with Liebherr in the end - I like that (in terms of white goods/kitchen appliances) it only makes refrigeration units, other than where you use them there's nothing tying them together in why a manufacturer would be good at making them all really, makes sense to specialise in refrigeration, or dish washing, or gas products or whatever IMO.

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