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Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

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Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#161

Post by modeless »

robmsmt wrote: post #148
modeless wrote: post #122

My son has eczema and food allergies and I did a lot of research on actions we could take to help prevent the so called "atopic march" to hay fever and asthma. There's a lot of woo-woo stuff out there that I think can be safely ignored, but I did find what I consider strong evidence that families that hand wash their dishes have significantly lower incidence of some allergic symptoms. I thought it sounded weird and I…

can you explain more on the gas stoves and oven part?

Children living in houses with gas stoves have somewhere between 20% and 50% more asthma. https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/42/6/1724/737113?login=...

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#162

Post by hindsightbias »

bonniemuffin wrote: post #156
hindsightbias wrote: post #150

I remember washing clothes at my aunts for some holiday, and started sneezing crazily sometime afterward. 12 year old cousins kid said “oh, you’re allergic to Tide” derp. If it was toxic on my clothes, I wondered what I was eating. People think I’m crazy to not have a dishwasher or microwave.

How is a microwave related to this article/discussion?

What happens when you microwave a detergent covered bowl? Or a plastic bowl?

Not to mention a burrito wrapped in plastic…

You are what you eat.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#163

Post by slv77 »

XorNot wrote: post #143
michaelteter wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While searching for causes, did you also look at ways to strengthen/rebalance/improve your GI system? I'm not sure if this will turn out to be quackery or snake oil, but the Super Gut book by William Davis makes some believable claims as to common causes of digest issues (along with solutions).

A HN poster recommended L. Reuteri supplements a while back, and I cannot recommend them enough: 6 months on and I've been able to completely drop a prucalopride prescription and have almost eliminated what used to be frequent and fairly crippling gut pain. The key I found was at about the 2 month mark things seemed to be getting worse, but after that a dramatic improvement. I was able to stop the supplements after t…

It also makes a delicious yogurt like product. Tastes somewhere between cream cheese and Greek yogurt. (https://www.luvele.com/blogs/recipe-blog/new-improved-l-reut...)

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#165

Post by heavyset_go »

DwnVoteHoneyPot wrote: post #76
mauvehaus wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll give you an upvote for that little dive into Wikipedia. For those who haven't already swum as deep, the article on ion exchange resins[0] is also worthwhile. Turns out they are used for reprocessing spent nuclear fuel as well as softening water. Plus a few other things. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion-exchange_resin

I did bad in high school chemistry, I never could understand this stuff. First, the ion exchange resin beads are washed with Na+ which bind to the beads. Second, the hard water is run through the beads and bad stuff like Mg2+ has a stronger attraction to the beads than Na+, so the Na+ is pushed off and Mg2+ binds to beads. The resulting water out of tap is softer because Mg2+ is out, but saltier because Na+ is in. Th…

Imagine the bonding as reaching an equilibrium where Mg2+ bonds and then dissociates in a repeating cycle. If you flood that solution with Na+, the chances for Mg2+ to bond after dissociating are lower when an excess of Na+ is doing the same thing, and a new equilibrium is reached.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#166

Post by esskay »

Macha wrote: post #132
yamtaddle wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From other comments it's looking like this one of those US/European divide things, with compartments for salt being uncommon on US dishwashers except for a few rare higher-end models/brands that are likely common to both continents (due to low volume in the US not justifying a localized version, I'd guess). I'm middle-aged and in the US and this thread is the first time I've heard of adding salt to a dishwasher.

Seems to be not quite EU/US. At least in Ireland we don't have salt compartments either. Maybe an anglosphere/not division?

Really odd that it differs so close to neighbouring countries. Here (UK) I've never seen a Dishwasher without a salt hole, and there's often several well know brands of salt in the supermarket (no idea why, its all the same stuff).

I wonder if its based on average water hardness in the area. I'm in the north of England and our supply comes out of Buxton Springs (yep the same as Buxton bottled water) and is extremly soft so despite filling the salt it never asks for it to be refilled again as its not needed.

When I used to live in north London I'd be filling it up once a month as the water there is extremely hard - so hard that it'll kill your kettle within a year if you don't keep on top of descaling.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#167

Post by MauranKilom »

robmsmt wrote: post #148
modeless wrote: post #122

My son has eczema and food allergies and I did a lot of research on actions we could take to help prevent the so called "atopic march" to hay fever and asthma. There's a lot of woo-woo stuff out there that I think can be safely ignored, but I did find what I consider strong evidence that families that hand wash their dishes have significantly lower incidence of some allergic symptoms. I thought it sounded weird and I…

can you explain more on the gas stoves and oven part?

They put a really high amount of particulates in the air, drastically reducing air quality.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#168

Post by blibble »

m463 wrote: post #116
magila wrote: post #78

I suffered from chronic diarrhea for years which I attributed to Crohn's disease. This seemed obvious since diarrhea is a very common symptom of Crohn's, but its onset had been several years after I was diagnosed and prior to that I had tended more towards the opposite problem (constipation). I was thus always suspicious that the root cause lay elsewhere. After much experimenting I found that if I ran my dishwasher t…

I wonder about sulfates, specifically SLS (sodium lauryl sulfate - which has many whack-a-mole names). SLS is a surficant, and although not named in this study, it has been shown in other studies to interfere with mucous membranes (canker sores, etc) I would wonder if that happens in the gut too. It is in many things. toothpaste, shampoo, dishwasher and laundry detergents, and lots more Since people are trying to avo…

> Since people are trying to avoid SLS, MANY tricky marketing synonyms have appeared to obfuscate ingredient lists:

this seems to be almost the definition of evil

people are trying to avoid something specific that makes them ill, so they try to hide it from them instead?

scum

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#169

Post by clnq »

hindsightbias wrote: post #162
bonniemuffin wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is a microwave related to this article/discussion?

What happens when you microwave a detergent covered bowl? Or a plastic bowl? Not to mention a burrito wrapped in plastic… You are what you eat.

> What happens when you microwave a detergent covered bowl?

So... what happens?

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#170

Post by Vrondi »

version_five wrote: post #135
magila wrote: post #78

I suffered from chronic diarrhea for years which I attributed to Crohn's disease. This seemed obvious since diarrhea is a very common symptom of Crohn's, but its onset had been several years after I was diagnosed and prior to that I had tended more towards the opposite problem (constipation). I was thus always suspicious that the root cause lay elsewhere. After much experimenting I found that if I ran my dishwasher t…

I worked in an office where I eventually realized I got annoying to bad GI problems whenever I drank the water (won't describe in detail but very atypical and I at first wondered why it only happened when I was in the office), and someone else there once mentioned they had the same problem. I always used the office-services provided glasses to drink out of, and reading this it seems very likely it could have been res…

I had issues severe enough to visit a gastroenterologist, which turned out to be caused by a water filter that wasn't being changed. I stopped consuming water going through that filter, and all symptoms went away within a day or two. It was stunning.
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