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Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

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Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#91

Post by colechristensen »

DwnVoteHoneyPot wrote: post #76
mauvehaus wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll give you an upvote for that little dive into Wikipedia. For those who haven't already swum as deep, the article on ion exchange resins[0] is also worthwhile. Turns out they are used for reprocessing spent nuclear fuel as well as softening water. Plus a few other things. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion-exchange_resin

I did bad in high school chemistry, I never could understand this stuff. First, the ion exchange resin beads are washed with Na+ which bind to the beads. Second, the hard water is run through the beads and bad stuff like Mg2+ has a stronger attraction to the beads than Na+, so the Na+ is pushed off and Mg2+ binds to beads. The resulting water out of tap is softer because Mg2+ is out, but saltier because Na+ is in. Th…

I believe the Mg+ Ca+ have a stronger attraction to the Cl- ions in the salt so when soaked in brine they trade places with the Na+

Beads prefer Mg over Na but Mg prefers Cl over beads. So you can recharge with salt brine.

Or it might just be a concentration thing where Na / Mg ratio wants to be the same in the brine and beads. So you just give a really strong brine and most of the Mg etc leaves the beads.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#92

Post by pfdietz »

hammock wrote: post #52
wobbly_bush wrote: post #4

Is my reading of the summary correct that it is only (or mainly?) talking about rinse aid and not about the detergent?

Rinse aid and detergent both have the same active, harmful ingredient: sulfates aka AES aka surfactants. The difference is that detergent gets rinsed off, while rinse aid IS the rinse (vs plain non-aided water).

It's not sulfates, it's ethoxylated alcohols.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethoxylation

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#93

Post by colechristensen »

casion wrote: post #26
RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm wrote: post #22

Rinse aid is completely unneeded if you properly maintain and use your dishwasher. I never use any, and my dishes are completely spotless. 30 years old dishwasher, super hard water. Specifically, you should: - always fill the salt of the dishwasher's water softener once it's empty. It cannot soften the water if it doesn't get cleaned by the salt. If the water is not softened you will get spots. EDIT: Apparently US fo…

Fill the salt? Configure for water hardness? I've never heard of either of these things before. Certainly not things on my, relatively fancy, dishwasher.

In the US we have whole home water softeners when necessary, in the EU they’re built in to dish washers.

Just small differences in water treatment and quality.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#95

Post by pfdietz »

hammock wrote: post #66
blackhaz wrote: post #38

How to recognize an alcohol ethoxylate?

Anything that ends in “sulfate” on the ingredients label. Or anything that is labeled “detergent” or “rinse aid.”

How did you get "sulfate" out of "ethoxylate alcohol".

You probably confused them with ethoxysulfates, which are a related but different class of chemicals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethoxylation

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#96

Post by michaelteter »

magila wrote: post #78

I suffered from chronic diarrhea for years which I attributed to Crohn's disease. This seemed obvious since diarrhea is a very common symptom of Crohn's, but its onset had been several years after I was diagnosed and prior to that I had tended more towards the opposite problem (constipation). I was thus always suspicious that the root cause lay elsewhere. After much experimenting I found that if I ran my dishwasher t…

While searching for causes, did you also look at ways to strengthen/rebalance/improve your GI system?

I'm not sure if this will turn out to be quackery or snake oil, but the Super Gut book by William Davis makes some believable claims as to common causes of digest issues (along with solutions).

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#97

Post by yupis »

throwaway09223 wrote: post #86
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For everyone confused by this comment: In some countries you might find dishwashers with a sort of built-in water softener: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dishwasher_salt It's not common in the United States. Some all-in-one detergent packets might contain some amount of dishwasher salt, though.

"It's not common in the United States." If US folks are looking for this feature, it can be found on higher end Bosch dishwashers in the US. I have very hard water and a Bosch benchmark series. The water softener makes a huge difference. I don't want a whole-house softener because I don't enjoy the feel of softened water in the shower.

Why don't you like the softener water? I thought it was better for the skin.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#100

Post by spfzero »

casion wrote: post #26
RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm wrote: post #22

Rinse aid is completely unneeded if you properly maintain and use your dishwasher. I never use any, and my dishes are completely spotless. 30 years old dishwasher, super hard water. Specifically, you should: - always fill the salt of the dishwasher's water softener once it's empty. It cannot soften the water if it doesn't get cleaned by the salt. If the water is not softened you will get spots. EDIT: Apparently US fo…

Fill the salt? Configure for water hardness? I've never heard of either of these things before. Certainly not things on my, relatively fancy, dishwasher.

Miele has it. It's a reservoir with a twist-cover at the bottom of the dishwasher that you fill with salt whenever the dishwasher tells you its time. Seems to be about once a quarter.
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