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Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

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Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#281

Post by seszett »

mauvehaus wrote: post #31
RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm wrote: post #22

Rinse aid is completely unneeded if you properly maintain and use your dishwasher. I never use any, and my dishes are completely spotless. 30 years old dishwasher, super hard water. Specifically, you should: - always fill the salt of the dishwasher's water softener once it's empty. It cannot soften the water if it doesn't get cleaned by the salt. If the water is not softened you will get spots. EDIT: Apparently US fo…

Fill the salt? I'm not sure all dishwashers have a receptacle for that. Ours doesn't, and I'm pretty confident that I've never had one that did across several states in the US and one place in Belgium. Is the salt for doing a softening process that substitutes for a whole house softener if you don't have one? We live in a place with hard water and have no softener in the house (you should see our electric kettle when…

> and one place in Belgium.

You might not have paid attention to it because your didn't know about it, but I don't think there are any dishwashers in Belgium that don't use salt, at least for the last twenty years or so.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#282

Post by someweirdperson »

tpxl wrote: post #274
runnerup wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My BOM: - $199: TerraBloom 6" Silenced EC Inline Duct Fan, ECMF-150-S, 288 CFM, 36W - $114: TERRABLOOM 6" AIR FILTER 24" LONG, 1.8" (46MM) THICK, - $80: TERRABLOOM 6" AIR FILTER 16" LONG, 1.8" (46MM) THICK - $3,000 (2022 prices): Siberian cat. Bought before recent price rises where the prices have apparently more than doubled, somewhat killing my dream of getting another Siberian kitten. Closely related to Maine Coon…

> recommend Miele vacuums which are fully sealed with proper gaskets for maximum suction and minimum allergen leaking/spreading...Dyson strongly not recommended Have you tried a water vaccuum? :)

Is that a vacuum cleaner that can suck water, or are there vacuums that use water to clean the exhaust like scrubbers on ships do?

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#283

Post by 867-5309 »

balls187 wrote: post #180
hindsightbias wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens when you microwave a detergent covered bowl? Or a plastic bowl? Not to mention a burrito wrapped in plastic… You are what you eat.

I generally don’t eat burritos wrapped in plastic.

generally people are not you

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#284

Post by hackernewds »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #55
trebor wrote: post #14

Ironically, the summary isn't as good as the "Key Messages" section at the bottom: > * Professional dishwasher rinse aid causes cellular cytotoxicity and directly impaired barrier integrity of gut epithelial cells by damaging TJ and AJ expressions in daily exposed concentrations. > * The underlying mechanisms of epithelial barrier disruption in response to rinse aid were cell death in 1:10,000 dilutions and epithelia…

Yeah in industry they are often called sanitizers because the purpose and mechanism are fundamentally different from the home ones people are familiar with. Or as a common chef quip: "the dishwasher is the guy running it, the machine is a sanitizer." They are notoriously bad at removing food residue, which must be sprayed or scraped off before running. Anything more than trace is cooked onto the dishes. They're reall…

you seem to be in expert on these matters, on an experiential level?

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#286

Post by Wolfenstein98k »

29athrowaway wrote: post #98

A reason behind mysterious endless baby crying is often soap residues left on milk bottles. Always rinse a bottle again before using it.

Citation needed.

But also, yes rinse them after washing them, also use a baby bottle detergent instead of "full strength" or whatever.

And then sterilise them.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#287

Post by someweirdperson »

cvoss wrote: post #59
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For everyone confused by this comment: In some countries you might find dishwashers with a sort of built-in water softener: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dishwasher_salt It's not common in the United States. Some all-in-one detergent packets might contain some amount of dishwasher salt, though.

In my limited experience in the several places I've lived in the US, only one had an issue with water that was hard enough to need addressing. Most residences there had a dedicated household water softener, so even there the dishwashers didn't need to do their own softening. Here's a nice map [1] [1] https://homewater101.com/articles/hard-water-across-us

From that link [1 above]: "An overwhelming 85 percent of the USA has hard water, so the likelihood that you live in state or city with hard water is high."

For a random location. Comparing the water hardness map with a population density map it seems that most are living in areas with soft water.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#288

Post by shellfishgene »

DwnVoteHoneyPot wrote: post #76
mauvehaus wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll give you an upvote for that little dive into Wikipedia. For those who haven't already swum as deep, the article on ion exchange resins[0] is also worthwhile. Turns out they are used for reprocessing spent nuclear fuel as well as softening water. Plus a few other things. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion-exchange_resin

I did bad in high school chemistry, I never could understand this stuff. First, the ion exchange resin beads are washed with Na+ which bind to the beads. Second, the hard water is run through the beads and bad stuff like Mg2+ has a stronger attraction to the beads than Na+, so the Na+ is pushed off and Mg2+ binds to beads. The resulting water out of tap is softer because Mg2+ is out, but saltier because Na+ is in. Th…

As explained, it's the concentration. If you don't have a dishwasher with a water softener: You don't sprinkle a little salt in some compartment, it's large and filled with 1-2 pounds of salt to make a saturated brine. The salt sold for dishwashers is purified NaCl (table salt has some other stuff like anti-caking agent). That's what the dishwasher uses to drive the Ca2 and Mg2 off the resin.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#289

Post by 317070 »

I have been having bigger bowel troubles ever since I started working in Google five years ago. They went away during the pandemic, but this week I'm sick with some kind of infection in my abdomen again.

I never had that before starting in Google, and I always was able to pretty much eat what I want.

Now I don't think it's the food, which is great (and I have been experimenting to see if I could narrow it down). But this article makes me think it might be the cutlery and plates! Or maybe the glasses and cups?

Any other Googlers here with similar issues?

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#290

Post by acadapter »

317070 wrote: post #289

I have been having bigger bowel troubles ever since I started working in Google five years ago. They went away during the pandemic, but this week I'm sick with some kind of infection in my abdomen again. I never had that before starting in Google, and I always was able to pretty much eat what I want. Now I don't think it's the food, which is great (and I have been experimenting to see if I could narrow it down). But…

I'm not at Google, but I noticed that I have to rinse the coffee cup with hot water 2-3 times, before I take it to the coffee machine. If I forget to do this, my stomach will hurt.

My suspicion is that modern dishwashers use too little water.

A colleague has his own coffee cup with a custom design, which he hand-washes. I might do the same.

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