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Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

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Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#141

Post by ars »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #18
matthewdgreen wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is talking about professional dishwashers like the ones used in restaurants. So if you dine out on a regular basis you're probably getting exposed to this stuff even if you don't use it at home. PS I have no chemical expertise, but the article singles out alcohol ethoxylates as the cause of this damage. And while I don't use rinse aid in my home dishwasher, my Cascade dishwasher pods list "Isotridecanol Ethoxylate…

Many years ago I worked as a skivvy in a hotel kitchen. We never used any detergent for the crockery, it just used extremely hot water. The dishes seemed very clean and they dried very rapidly.

Commercial dishwashers don't wash the dishes with soap, rather they blast them with water, and then sanitize with bleach.

Home dishwashers attempt to remove food residue with enzymes (also no soap).

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#142

Post by merth »

zgin4679 wrote: post #73
merth wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a guy, who has 20 pans and all dirty, washes no 19 to cook his 2$ stake. what a legand.

You'd think the stakes couldn't get any higher!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hETgbsF5yY8

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#143

Post by XorNot »

michaelteter wrote: post #96
magila wrote: post #78

I suffered from chronic diarrhea for years which I attributed to Crohn's disease. This seemed obvious since diarrhea is a very common symptom of Crohn's, but its onset had been several years after I was diagnosed and prior to that I had tended more towards the opposite problem (constipation). I was thus always suspicious that the root cause lay elsewhere. After much experimenting I found that if I ran my dishwasher t…

While searching for causes, did you also look at ways to strengthen/rebalance/improve your GI system? I'm not sure if this will turn out to be quackery or snake oil, but the Super Gut book by William Davis makes some believable claims as to common causes of digest issues (along with solutions).

A HN poster recommended L. Reuteri supplements a while back, and I cannot recommend them enough: 6 months on and I've been able to completely drop a prucalopride prescription and have almost eliminated what used to be frequent and fairly crippling gut pain.

The key I found was at about the 2 month mark things seemed to be getting worse, but after that a dramatic improvement. I was able to stop the supplements after the 3 month pack, though 6 months on there was some regression so I'm taking another round (which seems to have improved things).

It might not be possible for whatever reason to sustain the culture in my intestine, but it's been the first actual improvement I've had in decades.

Available as BioGaia, I recommend trying it if you have IBS symptoms.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#144

Post by XorNot »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #123
nerdponx wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't use the damn pouches! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04

A. Watch his follow up video. Where he talks about all he got wrong. B. I recently switched to a more “natural” SevenGenerations pouch and holy crap it’s been excellent. C. You can not buy anything but pods at two of my grocery stores. You need to go to Walmart near me to find any straight powder. Market has spoken right or wrong.

What he got wrong was... You might want to use less detergent to avoid residues.

The pouches are still pointless.

We switched and it almost completely solved our "dishes not getting cleaned properly" problem.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#145

Post by esaym »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #134
esaym wrote: post #125

Ok, so what do I use as a rinse aid then? I just dug all over amazon and pretty much everything has akoxylated alcohol or some form of polyoxypropylene laureth. And yes, I've purposely let the rinse aid run out just to see what happens. It wasn't pretty... Anyway to make something more "natural"? Some other ingredients I've seen include citric acid, urea, trisodium phosphate. But not sure if just mixing those togethe…

You don't need any rinse aid, period.

Did you not read what I wrote? Not sure what point you are making... I don't need to brush my hair, wear clothes, or wash my car either... But those are usually considered "proper" things to do. My first load without rinse aid resulted in spotty dishes. Not too bad, but annoying. By the third, it was worse. By the end of the week, all of the glassware was milky white and you could no longer see through it. You know that feeling you get when you run your finger nails across a chalkboard? Yea, we were getting that feeling by just running your hand across a glass plate.

I ended up buying more rinse aid and then running the milky dishes through a cycle with about a 1/4 cup of coffee machine cleaner (citric acid) thrown in.

Our water comes from a local lake and an underground aquifer surrounded in limestone if you are curious.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#146

Post by hammock »

pfdietz wrote: post #92
hammock wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rinse aid and detergent both have the same active, harmful ingredient: sulfates aka AES aka surfactants. The difference is that detergent gets rinsed off, while rinse aid IS the rinse (vs plain non-aided water).

It's not sulfates, it's ethoxylated alcohols. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethoxylation

It's both, and they work the same way on the gut

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#147

Post by amanaplanacanal »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #124
hjadal wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theres also liquid or powder detergent, which allows you to use a fitting amount for the dishwasher load.

Liquids have enzymes or bleach. They might have oxiclean instead of bleach but apparently the two best cleaning agents don’t exist in liquid together very well. Powder is better. Pods are just powder.

But the pods have too much detergent. Since there is no detergent in the pre-wash, they put too much in the main wash.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#148

Post by robmsmt »

modeless wrote: post #122

My son has eczema and food allergies and I did a lot of research on actions we could take to help prevent the so called "atopic march" to hay fever and asthma. There's a lot of woo-woo stuff out there that I think can be safely ignored, but I did find what I consider strong evidence that families that hand wash their dishes have significantly lower incidence of some allergic symptoms. I thought it sounded weird and I…

can you explain more on the gas stoves and oven part?

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#149

Post by js2 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #36
RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm wrote: post #22

Rinse aid is completely unneeded if you properly maintain and use your dishwasher. I never use any, and my dishes are completely spotless. 30 years old dishwasher, super hard water. Specifically, you should: - always fill the salt of the dishwasher's water softener once it's empty. It cannot soften the water if it doesn't get cleaned by the salt. If the water is not softened you will get spots. EDIT: Apparently US fo…

For everyone confused by this comment: In some countries you might find dishwashers with a sort of built-in water softener: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dishwasher_salt It's not common in the United States. Some all-in-one detergent packets might contain some amount of dishwasher salt, though.

Fisher & Paykel dish drawers have a salt-dispenser, at least my 2004 models do. They are (were?) designed in New Zealand but sold in the U.S. For a while they were sold rebranded by KitchenAid. My water isn't hard though so I haven't had to use any salt.

(Aside, and I don't know if they are still any good, but these dish drawers are really well engineered. Mine had some problems early on that were resolved by small changes in the design, but FP provided me the parts to retrofit my washers. They've been nearly trouble free since then.)

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#150

Post by hindsightbias »

I remember washing clothes at my aunts for some holiday, and started sneezing crazily sometime afterward. 12 year old cousins kid said “oh, you’re allergic to Tide”

derp. If it was toxic on my clothes, I wondered what I was eating.

People think I’m crazy to not have a dishwasher or microwave.

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