Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

nbcnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

541–550 of 700 posts

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#541

Post by nonethewiser »

shadowgovt wrote: post #477
nonethewiser wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is whether or not you can ever morally coerce someone to inject something into their body.

It's an interesting question but (at least in the US) a culturally very well-settled one. There's an extremely long history of vaccination being required for participation in various aspects of society, from the military to public education. During the pandemic, it broadened to "presence in office." The three tools a society has to defend against rampant disease are hygiene, vaccination, and quarantine. Those who can…

> It's an interesting question but (at least in the US) a culturally very well-settled one.

The fact that people disagree means that it is not.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#542

Post by spfzero »

bluGill wrote: post #317
spfzero wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It cannot stop transmission, clearly. The country is mostly vaccinated and cases continue, no herd immunity ever showed up. The vaccines do reduce transmission in the minority of cases where full-blown symptoms last long enough that the reduction in infection length conferred by the vaccine is significant. But for most cases, they never progress to the point that the antibody response would become a factor, so most v…

While nobody knows the numbers required, we didn't get enough vaccinations for herd immunity.

You can't get herd immunity from a vaccine that does not stop the spread of the disease, even with 100% coverage. Covid starts spreading early in the infection, before your vaccine-stimulated antibodies get into the action. For that kind of contagion, vaccines cannot stop the spread.

For other diseases that become contagious later in the infection, vaccines can, and at the outset it seemed like Covid might behave that way, but it turned out not to.

What the current vaccines can do, is lessen the possibility of serious outcomes, which is great.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#543

Post by cloverich »

serf wrote: post #406
VBprogrammer wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please try to keep the level of discussion one step above junior school. Otherwise there is no point in us communicating further. I didn't say there are no risks but those risks must necessarily be very low, as otherwise with a sample size of billions of doses issued even effects in the 1 in a million would be readily identifiable.

>..risks must necessarily be very low, as otherwise with a sample size of billions of doses issued even effects in the 1 in a million would be readily identifiable. it's by no means easy to identify trends that are worth pursuing for a medical investigation in a varied cohort of a billion people, and poll size is only a single attribute -- this is made even harder during a vacination campaign that is trying to effect…

Yet we managed to publish papers on myocarditis[1] whose incidence rate is reportedly 1900 (or fewer) cases per 190 million individuals. If you look up the numbers that triggered the concerns and walking back of recommendations, they are quite small. There's much we won't know for a long time, but the idea that we can't detect statistically significant trends of concern, much less large ones, is demonstrably untrue.

[1]: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788346

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#544

Post by spfzero »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #284
spfzero wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It cannot stop transmission, clearly. The country is mostly vaccinated and cases continue, no herd immunity ever showed up. The vaccines do reduce transmission in the minority of cases where full-blown symptoms last long enough that the reduction in infection length conferred by the vaccine is significant. But for most cases, they never progress to the point that the antibody response would become a factor, so most v…

> It cannot stop transmission, clearly. The country is mostly vaccinated and cases continue, no herd immunity ever showed up. This is a miststament.

You quoted two statements. For the first, I'm not going to further defend it, see above, it is widely accepted these days.

For the second statement there are two assertions, that the country is mostly vaccinated, and that no herd immunity ever showed up. The country is mostly vaccinated, so I think you must be questioning whether herd immunity showed up.

I do think some amount of immunity showed up, if by immunity you mean spreading a little bit of Covid but not as much as if you had not been vaccinated and were unfortunate enough to get a serious case of it. But I'm not sure that would qualify as "herd immunity".

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#545

Post by walterbell »

kube-system wrote: post #302
walterbell wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flu shots were not mandated for work, study or travel.

All three of those are wrong in at least some circumstances. Several members of my family have been getting their mandatory flu shots for decades.

There's a sizable difference between:

- informed consent at the time of signing an employment (e.g. military, medical) contract with known career conditions

- new conditions (mandates) being added to existing labor contracts, while there is active litigation on the purpose and legality of those conditions, and re-definition of legal language (e.g. CDC's 2021 redefinition of "vaccine") used in mandates

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#546

Post by [deleted] »

hotpotamus wrote: post #342
chasd00 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my sister ended up with endocarditis and nearly died. She went from "i feel bad, i should go to the doctor" to emergency heart valve replacement surgery in about 8 days.

Natasha Leone (famous actress) talks about getting endocarditis and it was serious as well. She was very vulnerable to it because of some behavioral factors. My impression is that myocarditis is not as serious as endocarditis though.

[deleted]

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#547

Post by Server6 »

throwaway5959 wrote: post #416
Server6 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched one of my best friends choke on his own lungs and die of COVID last year. He'd be alive if he had gotten the vaccine.

I’m sorry to hear that.

Thanks. I wouldn't wish what he went through on my worst enemy. He was in the hospital for three months and spend half of that time on a ventilator. After a month COVID isn't contagious anymore and we were allowed us to visit him in the ICU (really visiting his family). I was at the hospital the night he passed away.

I think for a lot of people COVID isn't "real". They don't know anyone who died. Or if they do they were old, and/or it happened in the hospital far away from whatever their personal reality is.

Believe me when I tell you the risk associated with the vaccine is nothing compared to what he went through. I fully believe had he been vaccinated he'd still be here today.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#548

Post by SanjayMehta »

Izkata wrote: post #507
ben_w wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Although it still seems premature to call someone who only doesn't take the first mainstream mRNA vaccine an antivaxxer. Non-mRNA COVID vaccines do exist.

Sinovac (China) and Novavax (only just given EUA a few weeks ago) are AFAIK the only options if you want something more traditional. I think might have been one more, from India..? But J&J and AstraZeneca are adenovirus-vector, something almost as new as mRNA, and work by basically the same mechanism. Sputnik (Russia) is also adenovirus-vector.

India: Covaxin is the traditional whole inactivated vaccine you're thinking of.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#549

Post by pmoriarty »

"People face a much higher risk of developing myocarditis from Covid infection than the vaccines, according to the Department of Health and Human Services. The risk of myocarditis from Covid is 100 times higher than developing the condition after Covid vaccination, according to a recent paper in Nature Reviews Cardiology."[1]

[1] - https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/04/though-rare-moderna-covid-va...

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#550

Post by xracy »

ckw wrote: post #539
xracy wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: I wasn't kidding when I said I can play numbers and statistics all day. When you say "VAERS notoriously undercounts", I think you're probably referring to the flu vaccine (where we would have historical data), but I don't think it's fair to say that would be true for the Covid vaccine. Specifically because at the onset of this new vaccine, people are much more likely to report that a death happened after a covi…

When I say VAERS notoriously undercounts, I’m referring to the literature on the subject. For example, the Harvard report Electronic Support for Public Health - Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (ESP:VAERS) https://digital.ahrq.gov/ahrq-funded-projects/electronic-sup... : Adverse events from drugs and vaccines are common, but underreported. Although 25% of ambulatory patients experience an adverse drug event, le…

I mean, there is no standard of proof that will convince you that the vaccine is better than the virus. But also, I'm not really trying to convince you of anything. I'm just stating why your sources don't say what you think they do.

As well as explaining confounding variables that your reference doesn't take into account for what that means. None of your sources are accounting for how politically embroiled this vaccine is, and how much of a difference that would make in who/what gets reported.

Just in case, I will make this point. If you had a loved one get a covid vaccine, and then die 20 days later, would you report it to VAERS?

Post reply on HN